1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

[sfav8r]

I know that CH, murray, and, I think, Sq D are rated for multiple wires on atleast some of their breakers.

The CH breakers I have in the van are not marked one way or the other. There are torque ratings, but that's it. Originally there was a piece of paper in one of the boxes that as close as I can recall said something 3- #10-#14.

I cannot find ANYTHING on the CH web site (why does this have to be so difficult

Does anyone have a link to info. on this?

Thanks

 

[straps]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Square D type qo are rated for 2 wires of the same awg they have seperate attachment points at each end of the connection but you are asking for troubles with inspectors just put 1 wire please it makes life so much more pleasant.
A tired Florida Electrican

 

[GG]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by sfav8r:
why does this have to be so difficult

If you have 2 wires and 1 breaker why not just twist them together with a 3rd jumper wire and land the jumper on the breaker. I dont see what is so difficult.

 

[sfav8r]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by GG:

Originally posted by sfav8r:
why does this have to be so difficult

If you have 2 wires and 1 breaker why not just twist them together with a 3rd jumper wire and land the jumper on the breaker. I dont see what is so difficult.

I wasn't too clear in the original post. The difficulty I was referring to was finding literature from manufactures.

 

[paul]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

BR Breakers 1

BR Breakers 2

However neither say anything about two wire under one lug. They do say that breakers comply with UL 489. I think that unless it says that you can have two wires under one lug, it's safe to say that it's not allowed.

 

[sfav8r]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Paul,

Thanks for the links. I looked at those docs. before posting. You're right, they don't address the issue.

There is a data sheet that comes with the breakers that lists the wire range. It may be that the breakers I currently have in stock are not listed for more. I know I saw the docs at some point, but now I can't seem to locate them.

 

[physis]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

I had to find something out about an old Square D panel once and Tom Baker gave me the number for their technical whatever people and they were very helpful. If you really need to know you can probably get an answer in about five minutes.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

We had a problem with ahj tagging jobs for over sized conductors on 2 pole 20`s when 8/3 was run for a wall oven ,What was installed was a 3.8 kw unit hense the 2 pole 20 breaker.
Just look at the side of the breaker for its UL listing.But as stated ust make up a joint in the panel(allowed ) and terminate under the lug

 

[iwire]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by sfav8r:
I know that CH, murray, and, I think, Sq D are rated for multiple wires on atleast some of their breakers.

The CH breakers I have in the van are not marked one way or the other. There are torque ratings, but that's it. Originally there was a piece of paper in one of the boxes that as close as I can recall said something 3- #10-#14.

I cannot find ANYTHING on the CH web site (why does this have to be so difficult

 

[jwelectric]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Now that we have the two wires and one breaker cleared up I have another question.

What do I do if I have two breakers and only one wire?

 

[iwire]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by jwelectric:
Now that we have the two wires and one breaker cleared up I have another question.

What do I do if I have two breakers and only one wire?

Pigtail it with a wirenut, make sure to place the breakers on the same phase.

 

[goldstar]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

I was always under the impression that those breakers (up to 30 amps) that have a single port with a screw down terminal were rated for only one wire and thus the need for pig-tailing. Those with a pressure plate or "clamp down" feature can accommodate two wires (one on each side of the screw). The physical characteristics are obvious. Why do we have to show proof that these breakers are rated for 2 wires ?

 

[augie47]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Pigtail it with a wirenut, make sure to place the breakers on the same phase.

aww lets put them on opposing phases to add to the fun

 

[sfav8r]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

I spoke with Cutler-Hammer Tech Support this morning. Very helpful and gave me a GREAT link to a 50 page catalog that has the specs for all of the CH and BR breakers.

Cuttler-Hammer CH-BR

There CH 15 through 30 a 1-2 pole breakers are indeed rated for 2 conductors

Thanks for all the input.

 

[physis]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Bob I looked at "identified" in article 100 yesterday and I was pretty well convinced that the device doesn't need to say anything on it.

Could I be wrong?

 

[iwire]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by physis:
Bob I looked at "identified" in article 100 yesterday and I was pretty well convinced that the device doesn't need to say anything on it.

Could I be wrong?

When the inspector asks for the identification it is our responsibility to provide it.

If you had paper work IMO that would be fine.

For example in RI I must hang on to the tags that come on fire Alarm MC to show the inspector. The 'correct' FA MC for use in RI has tags that have a RI approved seal.

Many ground bar kits are not directly marked they come with a paper sticker that is supposed to be applied near the ground bar that show the torque rating along with conductor sizes and quantity's.

 

[physis]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Fine, I'll stuff all the intructions for everything in the panel. Just kidding.

 

[davedottcom]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Originally posted by jwelectric:
Now that we have the two wires and one breaker cleared up I have another question.

What do I do if I have two breakers and only one wire?

That happened to me!(Sort of!)

I was working in a house, home owner was assisting me in finding the correct breaker for the circuit I was working on... his job was to watch the tester and yell when the little lights go out... so one by one I try all the 15 amp breakers... he nevers yells!...I asked if he's still watching!?!? he says yea, it never went off. Hmmm...Again, I try all the 15's, nothing, then I try the 20's... circuit never shuts off! I decided to shut the 15's off one at a time but this time I will leave them off as I go down the panel. Sure enough (2) 15 amp breakers had to be shut off to kill that 120Volt circuit!
I explained to him that the original electrican somehow connected the 2 circuits together & because they ended up on the same phase they never knew it.
He wanted the original electrician to fix it at no charge so I left one of the 2 breakers off to keep it safe until then.

Dave

 

[peter d]

Re: 1 Breaker - 2 wires (here we go again)

Posted by Bob:

For example in RI I must hang on to the tags that come on fire Alarm MC to show the inspector. The 'correct' FA MC for use in RI has tags that have a RI approved seal.

That's weird. I never had a FA inspection where they have asked to see the MC cable tags, or even checked any of the field wiring for that matter. Then again, I did't work for an out of state contractor.