10 Amp branch circuits would you use them?

[tortuga]

There is some serious research and proposals that would open up the possibility of 10 Amp branch circuits.
Changes to 240.6 are proposed to make 10 Amps a standard size breaker (Siemens actually makes a 10A breaker)
Companies are getting 14Awg copper clad aluminum listed and proposing it be allowed in the code for a 10 Amp branch circuit.
Would any of you use a 10 Amp branch circuit?

From Public Input No. 3238-NFPA 70-2020 [ Section No. 240.4(D) ]

Technical Substantiation
The application of energy efficient equipment and the implementation of Energy Codes for modern construction, provides
more options for reduced branch circuit loading. The result is that many branch circuits are capable of having a conductor
current rating and overcurrent device rating of 10-Amperes. For example, a typical 75-watt equivalent LED lamp has a load
rating of 12 watts. At 120 volts this is a load of 0.1 amps per lamp. A continuously loaded 10-ampere branch circuit for fixed
lighting would be allowed to have 8 amps of load current, which would equate to 80 of these LED lamps. This is more lamps
than found in a typical 2000 square foot home. Other examples are specific limited loads such as fire or burglar alarm
panels, kitchen instant hot water dispensers, attic exhaust fans, and others. These specific loads on individual branch
circuits only need one or a few amperes and could safely be installed on a 10-Ampere branch circuit. These lighting and
specific appliance applications exist in both dwelling unit as well as commercial and industrial installations.

 

[LarryFine]

Would any of you use a 10 Amp branch circuit?

If it saved installation costs, I'd consider it. There would have to be a mechanism in place to prevent non-LED use.

There are dedicated circuits that 10a would be fine to supply, but again, there would need to be a $ incentive.

 

[Todd0x1]

Theres 10 amp QO breakers too. No homeline though. I can't really see any cost benefit other than the cable being cheaper. Any problems with this stuff when the copper gets nicked through to the aluminum? I wonder if the breakers protecting it should be faster and have a lower instantaneous threshold.

 

[James L]

You're talking about 8 continuous amps
There are some circuits that would be fine...

Lighting, as @LarryFine mentioned. Some others are either required to be on dedicated circuit, or typically installed on dedicated circuit, or maybe should be required, and have continuous load of less than 8 amps

Gas furnace
Sump pump
Radon system
Smoke detectors
Alarm panel

I think it would be a special use cable, not something that would be typical on an average circuit

 

[mbrooke]

If the code went to 230-240 volts I'd think it would be a good idea for smokes, lighting and hard-wired dedicated equipment.

 

[480sparky]

You might save some on ONE circuit, but if your loads required TWO, it may not be economically viable. Especially with the cost of AFCIs and such.

 

[tortuga]

Any problems with this stuff when the copper gets nicked through to the aluminum? I wonder if the breakers protecting it should be faster and have a lower instantaneous threshold.

Good point too many bad experiences with small aluminum, I'd rather see a 16/2 NM copper than a 14/2 copper clad aluminum.

If the code went to 230-240 volts I'd think it would be a good idea for smokes, lighting and hard-wired dedicated equipment.

I dont see any reason for a voltage limitation either way, I think the old limit of 14AWG was mechanical strength.
I would imagine 16/2 copper romex and MC would be stranded for durability.

 

[mbrooke]

Good point too many bad experiences with small aluminum, I'd rather see a 16/2 NM copper than a 14/2 copper clad aluminum.

I dont see any reason for a voltage limitation either way, I think the old limit of 14AWG was mechanical strength.
I would imagine 16/2 copper romex and MC would be stranded for durability.

You would be correct. IEC60364-5-52 limits in wall wiring to a minimum of 1.5mm2 due to mechanical strength. 16 AWG is 1.31mm2. If you have ever been on a job site youd know even #14 is to small.

 

[mbrooke]

Theres 10 amp QO breakers too. No homeline though. I can't really see any cost benefit other than the cable being cheaper. Any problems with this stuff when the copper gets nicked through to the aluminum? I wonder if the breakers protecting it should be faster and have a lower instantaneous threshold.

Breakers will have to be faster due the increased impedance.

Further there may need to limits on the short circuit current at the load center or panelboard in that high short circuit currents can melt the conductor in a few cycles.

 

[tortuga]

You would be correct. IEC60364-5-52 limits in wall wiring to a minimum of 1.5mm2 due to mechanical strength. 16 AWG is 1.31mm2. If you have ever been on a job site youd know even #14 is to small.

You mean 14 copper clad aluminum? Its not out yet.
I have never had a problem with 14 Copper, and I am on job-sites regularly .
I have run alot of 16 stranded for in home speakers, and 16 600V TFFN in control panels all day long today.
I'd rather see some 16 stranded NM made with 600V insulation before 14 aluminum.
Should not be hard for them to take this:

16-65 4/C IN-WALL CL3 DIRECT BURIAL WHITE 500 FT | Southwire

SOUTHWIRE SIGNAL SPEAKER CABLE, IN-WALL RATED, STRANDED BARE COPPER

www.southwire.com

and re-list it for 600V conductors, seems like the NM jacket.

 

[480sparky]

Enough of this. It's time to get down to the really important stuff.

Like.............



What color will the sheath be?

 

[LarryFine]

How ,about pink?

 

[tortuga]

You might save some on ONE circuit, but if your loads required TWO, it may not be economically viable. Especially with the cost of AFCIs and such.

So I just got done a new house for a retired couple, and I ended up with a lot of 15A lighting circuits, due to room layout and never wanting them to be in the dark if a breaker tripped.
Its all LED and I dont think a single lighting circuit has more than 6 - 8 amps.
I am not sure I'd have had to add more circuits.
I think the idea is that lighting loads are so low now there is a use case for a 10 amp circuit.

How ,about pink?

Pink it is.

 

[James L]

You mean 14 copper clad aluminum? Its not out yet.
I have never had a problem with 14 Copper, and I am on job-sites regularly .
I have run alot of 16 stranded for in home speakers, and 16 600V TFFN in control panels all day long today.
I'd rather see some 16 stranded NM made with 600V insulation before 14 aluminum.
Should not be hard for them to take this:

16-65 4/C IN-WALL CL3 DIRECT BURIAL WHITE 500 FT | Southwire

SOUTHWIRE SIGNAL SPEAKER CABLE, IN-WALL RATED, STRANDED BARE COPPER

www.southwire.com

and re-list it for 600V conductors, seems like the NM jacket.

I use 16- and 18-gauge in wall speaker wire for 12v LED strip lighting. With the 18-gauge I won't put any more than 2 amps on it. But the 16-gauge? I'll put 6 or 7 amps on it and won't worry a bit.

At 120 volts, 6 or 7 amps still gives you a lot of lighting on a circuit. And I agree, 16-gauge copper would be better than 14-gauge clad

 

[Coppersmith]

I doubt I would use 10 amp circuits. I rarely use 15 amp circuits. Usually I wire everything with 12 gauge.

 

[tortuga]

Interesting. Do you ever use copper clad aluminum?

 

[Coppersmith]

Interesting. Do you ever use copper clad aluminum?

I never do.

 

[LarryFine]

10a circuits also means more breakers than the same amount of light on 15a circuits.

 

[James L]

10a circuits also means more breakers than the same amount of light on 15a circuits.

I would venture to say that most new residential "lighting only" circuits have less than 8 amps on them. I don't think there would really be a functional difference

 

[Eddie702]

This is probably only being talked about because copper is so high$$$

I suppose connections will be an issue copper clad or not. Now you will need a panel with more spaces for the same load