100amp main breaker retainer

[welldigger]

I am being told by my local code enforcement that my newly installed cutler hammer meter/load combo is not to code due to the absence of a breaker retainer clip on the 100 amp main that bolts the main breaker to the buss bar. cutler hammer maintains that the only time the retainer hardware is required is when the load is terminating at the breaker itself. they insist that since the overhead connects to the meter base lugs, and the main breaker is bussed off of the meter base with factory installed wire and breaker, that a retainer bracket is not required. local code officials insist they are correct per the north carolina dept of insurance nec code interpreters and refuse to ok the box until the hardware is installed. pls offer opinions or facts

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

Once again, it's the old AHJ issue. If he requires it, in this case, its probably not worth the arguement. The small plastic clip can be purchased for a couple of bucks.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

A bolt on breaker never requires a retaining clip. 480.16(F) only requires a retainer for "plug-on" type breakers that are back fed.
Don

 

[curt swartz]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

Don

I don't think this is a bolt-on breaker. I think it is a plug-on breaker with factory installed bussing from the meter socket to the terminals of the breaker. Since this breaker is not used to terminate field installed ungrounded supply conductors an additional fastener is not required.
You meant 408.16(F) not 480.16(F) didn't you?

Gregory

The hold down clips will only fit in branch position designed to hold the main breaker. I'm sure this load center does not have a provision for a main breaker clip.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

Curt,
Yes, it should have been 408.16. You are also correct that the code section only applies to field installed conductors and does not apply to factory installed conductors.
Don

 

[welldigger]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

thanks guys for the help! our county inspection dept. is as screwed up as a football bat in the first place. i don't have a copy of the code book so i couldn't pull it out and show it. the local inspectors indicate their source is the electrical engineers that intrepret code for the dept. of insurance. i am sick and tired of getting 5 different answers from 5 different inspectors. absolutley no continuity!!i also had an issue with an in use gfci cover they required. two houses down, they passed an old square d box without the cover. just depends on which idiot draws your name. i intend to be on the phone with the dept of insurance tomorrow am. if i determine they are wrong, i will petition the county commissioners for a refund of my electrical permit. i lost 3 hours today waiting on them to make up their minds, as well as an opportunity to get a meter set by the emc...thanks again

 

[pierre]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

Welldigger

I think all of us have at one time or another had the pleasure of 'many' interpretations by 'as many' inspectors. The way I try to deal with that particular situation is to talk to the inspector. Ask him his reason behind the decision. If he was to say, I have seen in cases like this the breaker coming loose, or something like that, then I would think he has genuine concern. If he says to me that, this is the code, with an attitude, then I 'pop' out my copy of the NEC and debate it with him. If not satisfied with the results, I go over his head. Sometimes you win, some times you loose. But a least you are not a pushover.
'Stick to your guns'!!!

Pierre

[ July 10, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[welldigger]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

hey guys, me again...could one of you pls give me the exact text from 408.16 (F)? since i don't have a copy, i am not aware of how bothersome this request may be???thanks...email me if you like

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

408.16 Overcurrent Protection.
...

(F) Back-Fed Devices. Plug-in-type overcurrent protection devices or plug-in type-main lug assemblies that are backfed and used to terminate field-installed ungrounded supply conductors shall be secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel.

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

you are correct don, my mistake . I should read a little more carefully before responding

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: 100amp main breaker retainer

Originally posted by gregoryelectricinc:
The small plastic clip can be purchased for a couple of bucks.

I agree with Don on the issue, but say there were a need for the clip. If it is a "CH" type enclosure over 125amp, there has to be a small square hole for the clip to insert to, and if Cutler Hammer didn't maintain the neccessity for it, the square hole is not there.