- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Has anyone used 12-4 or 14-4 NM cable with two neutrals? I've seen it advertised for running two AFCI circuits. I was wondering if it is cost effective?
12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
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Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
It sounds like a homerun...but feasibility..I dunno?
I remember a 100 years when I was wiring condos for this guy (I'd say EC, but that would be too much of a compliment
)...he had us run a 12/3 MC for the SA's in a condo..b&w were one circuit, red&green the other...I lasted 1 unit before my mouth opened...LOL...this guy told me the AHJ would allow it - as well as using the existing K&T wiring for the lighting, in a building that was under going a 100% renovation!
It sounds like a homerun...but feasibility..I dunno?
I remember a 100 years when I was wiring condos for this guy (I'd say EC, but that would be too much of a compliment
)...he had us run a 12/3 MC for the SA's in a condo..b&w were one circuit, red&green the other...I lasted 1 unit before my mouth opened...LOL...this guy told me the AHJ would allow it - as well as using the existing K&T wiring for the lighting, in a building that was under going a 100% renovation!
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
12 is good for 30 amps at 90 degrees. 30*.8=24 amps. Still satisfies 240.4(D)
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
It does save on the labor over running two 12/2 cables in parallel. If you are wiring a 3-way circuit that requires 4 wires such as needing to continue the power that is always on, it saves on having to ring out and color tag the wires. It is also useful for switch loops for ceiling fans where there isa light attached or if you also need the neutral to run a vacumm cleaner receptacle.
I have not had a chance to use it yet because the electrical business took a beating in the wake of September 11th, 2001. Electrical work is the last thing on people's budgets and the first thing to be cut. Amazing how long somebody will go without power or having to string extension cords.
If they have to string a garden hose from the laundry tub to the bathtub that get fixed really fast.
It does save on the labor over running two 12/2 cables in parallel. If you are wiring a 3-way circuit that requires 4 wires such as needing to continue the power that is always on, it saves on having to ring out and color tag the wires. It is also useful for switch loops for ceiling fans where there isa light attached or if you also need the neutral to run a vacumm cleaner receptacle.
I have not had a chance to use it yet because the electrical business took a beating in the wake of September 11th, 2001. Electrical work is the last thing on people's budgets and the first thing to be cut. Amazing how long somebody will go without power or having to string extension cords.
If they have to string a garden hose from the laundry tub to the bathtub that get fixed really fast.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
I always prefer to run multiwire circuits, I was just wondering if this type of cable is very expensive since I haven't used it.
I always prefer to run multiwire circuits, I was just wondering if this type of cable is very expensive since I haven't used it.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
I have used it a few times but forget how much it costs. Other than bedroom circuits three wire is fine for homeruns. One less wire to worry about with box fill.
Mc, you haven't done any electrical work in three and a half years? Where are you loctated? Sound like a bad situation. Most everywhere seems to be doing ok workwise.
I have used it a few times but forget how much it costs. Other than bedroom circuits three wire is fine for homeruns. One less wire to worry about with box fill.
Mc, you haven't done any electrical work in three and a half years? Where are you loctated? Sound like a bad situation. Most everywhere seems to be doing ok workwise.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
I have not used it yet but can see it having some advantages.Great way to add a dead end 4 way.What ungrounded colors do they use ? red,black ?
As for work here in Tampa there is no end in sight.Both commercial and residential are full speed ahead.Low interest rates are putting many into new homes.
I have not used it yet but can see it having some advantages.Great way to add a dead end 4 way.What ungrounded colors do they use ? red,black ?
As for work here in Tampa there is no end in sight.Both commercial and residential are full speed ahead.Low interest rates are putting many into new homes.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
The cable has two ungrounded conductors:
1- Black
2- Red
and two grounded conductors:
1- White w/ black tracer
2- White w/ red tracer
And of course an uninsulated grounding conductor.
The cable has two ungrounded conductors:
1- Black
2- Red
and two grounded conductors:
1- White w/ black tracer
2- White w/ red tracer
And of course an uninsulated grounding conductor.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
Thanks
Thanks
southernboys
Senior Member
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
Dillion Im in pensacola fl where were getting hit yet again with a tropical storm. There are not enuff electricians to go around to cover all of the jobs. I work for one of the largest companys in this area with 105 people and the superintrndants are having to run 2-3 jobs at a time. I was hired on as a helper as id been doing condos and houses before I started with this company. A month and a half into it with this company I was handed a set of prints and told to run a 5 man crew why because there just arent enough good electricians to go around so if youre looking for work Id suggest trasvaling down this way. One great website is orlando sentinel click on the jobs link and it will show you whos hiring arond here. Jim same situation in Tampa?
Dillion Im in pensacola fl where were getting hit yet again with a tropical storm. There are not enuff electricians to go around to cover all of the jobs. I work for one of the largest companys in this area with 105 people and the superintrndants are having to run 2-3 jobs at a time. I was hired on as a helper as id been doing condos and houses before I started with this company. A month and a half into it with this company I was handed a set of prints and told to run a 5 man crew why because there just arent enough good electricians to go around so if youre looking for work Id suggest trasvaling down this way. One great website is orlando sentinel click on the jobs link and it will show you whos hiring arond here. Jim same situation in Tampa?
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
****
Without prying to deeply into your personal business - what does an electrician make there (employee), a foreman/crew leader, etc?
For an EC, I know that will vary depending on a thousand factors...
{EDIT: rate)
[ June 11, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
I have a cousin who lives there...last year (or the year before) his house suffered some serious storm damage. It took quite awhile for the roof to even get repaired. In speaking to him, he has told me (repeatedly) - come down, you will have no problem working here (He's a doctor with too many letters after his hame).
****
Without prying to deeply into your personal business - what does an electrician make there (employee), a foreman/crew leader, etc?
For an EC, I know that will vary depending on a thousand factors...
{EDIT: rate)
[ June 11, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
aelectricalman
Senior Member
- Location
- KY
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
What type of licensing is there in Florida? Do you think they would allow contractors from other states to step in and help out without having to go through their licencing process because of the dire need?
What type of licensing is there in Florida? Do you think they would allow contractors from other states to step in and help out without having to go through their licencing process because of the dire need?
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
southernboys,
Thank you for responding sir,and it is very tempting.Was telling JWElectric just this week, that I was maybe in the need to feel some tropical heat, and a change of location.
"tip'in my hat for the info"
I will, look into this..
southernboys,
Thank you for responding sir,and it is very tempting.Was telling JWElectric just this week, that I was maybe in the need to feel some tropical heat, and a change of location.
"tip'in my hat for the info"
I will, look into this..
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
I thought Jim and Allen commonly gripe that the wages in FL are way low?
This doesn't seem in keeping with "supply & demand."
I thought Jim and Allen commonly gripe that the wages in FL are way low?
This doesn't seem in keeping with "supply & demand."
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 12-4 Romex with Dual Neutrals
Wages are low but at least we are working and not freezing our a$$ off.There are thousands of homes being built in Tampa area every year.Farmers sell off the farm and next thing you see is 500 more homes going up.
as to "What type of licensing is there in Florida? Do you think they would allow contractors from other states to step in and help out without having to go through their licencing process because of the dire need?"No i don't think they will reciprocate.You will not need any license to work for an EC.
Wages are low but at least we are working and not freezing our a$$ off.There are thousands of homes being built in Tampa area every year.Farmers sell off the farm and next thing you see is 500 more homes going up.
as to "What type of licensing is there in Florida? Do you think they would allow contractors from other states to step in and help out without having to go through their licencing process because of the dire need?"No i don't think they will reciprocate.You will not need any license to work for an EC.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
- Status