jbtxlake
Member
- Location
- Burnet, Texas USA
Has anyone ever had a problem splicing together #12 solid with #12 stranded using a insulated splice.
#12 gauge Insulated splices
- Thread starter jbtxlake
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iceworm
Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
- Location
- North of the 65 parallel
- Occupation
- EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Yep - I've never had any luck using crimp type splice on a solid conductor. I don't recall that any crimps are rated for single solid conductors.
ice
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
I don't recall ever seeing anything on any crimp connectors about being rated only for use on stranded conductors.
I agree that using them on solid conductors is likely problematic, but not a listing or code violation.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Yes and no. I have never done it so I have not had any problems of my own doing. I have seen multiple failures.
iceworm
Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
- Location
- North of the 65 parallel
- Occupation
- EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Didn't say anything about listing or code - neither would concern me if they would work. As for a "rating" - It appears that was a poor word choice. Please translate to: Suitable for purpose per the mfg literature.
ice
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
I checked some mfg. literature (T&B) on line and there is nothing indicating crimp on connectors are not suitable to use on solid wire.
Personally, I think they are not suitable and don't use them on solid wire for that matter. But nothing in the specs support my (our) view, as far as I have read.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Ice,
Also note that push in (Wago type) connectors are rated for both stranded and solid conductors. Have you tried using them on stranded conductors? I have and that's as far as it went, a trial.
Mfg literature and the real world often don't agree.
Also note that push in (Wago type) connectors are rated for both stranded and solid conductors. Have you tried using them on stranded conductors? I have and that's as far as it went, a trial.
Mfg literature and the real world often don't agree.
iceworm
Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
- Location
- North of the 65 parallel
- Occupation
- EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Did not expect that. In order for a compression connector to work, it has to well - compress. Hard to compress solid.
Are you sure you read past the soldering instructions. (That is supposed to be mildly teasing and humorous - not mean. But it is hard to read the body language through the typing):roll:
Got to go. Got a customer. Probably a couple of months.
ice
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Can't recall how it is worded in instructions but something to effect they are not rated for fine strands - but they fail to mention how fine. I would guess they work great with 7 strand conductor, but most general purpose stranded (in 12 and 14 AWG) is 19 strands. Large enough strands that sometimes they will go right in and sometimes they will give you fits.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Correct, they are not rated for fine strands. I was using 12 AWG THHN. If done just right, you could get all the strands in, but it's not easy and once you fail you have to cut all the strands off and start over.
Next time you get a chance, try doing it with some scrap wire.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
From the UL Guide Information (white book) for "Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV)"
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
No need to get out the scraps, I have done it in actual use and you are right - if you fail to get it inserted first time you pretty much need to cut, re-strip and try again.
What they don't mention is how fine of strands are or are not acceptable - like I said 19 strand 12 AWG does go in maybe about 75% of the time on the first try, but sometimes it doesn't. Finer strands then that probably will never go in unless you tin the ends. 7 strand conductor probably behaves mostly like solid for this application.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
110.14 requires that the connector be specifically identified for use with conductors with standading finer than Class B or C. For a #14 through #2, Class B is 7 strands, and Class C is 19 strands. Chapter 9, Table 10.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Just checked WAGO information out on their site - they are rated for up to 19 strand conductors.
I knew that a connector had to be listed for use with a fine stranded conductor - did not know just exactly what told us how fine it had to be before that rule kicked in - thanks.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
T&B PT60M connectors are for solid and stranded conductors per instructions on the box. I have used them for years on 14 and 12 solid. Never had an issue. In fact installed with the proper tool they are very hard to remove.
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