#12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

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eeee

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I know it is standard to run 10AWG for 120 Volt receptacles for a best engineering practice (standard installation) run of outlets. That is what I have always seen and this is what is determined after the calculation is finished.

I am not sure that it is standard to run 14AWG for flourescent lights. Is it more standard to run 14AWG or 12AWG for flourescent lights?

I have seen 14AWG run to the lighting relay panels for a run of flourescent lights. I have always thought to use 14AWG for the connecting the flourescent lights together also. It has been banished about that 12AWG may be preferred for connecting a standard run of flourescent lights together using a distance preferred for a best engineering practice.

I know that the calculation is performed first, but what is most commonly used for a given calculation for flourescent lights when I have heard that 12AWG is sometimes used, but the same calculation yields 14AWG as a wire of choice in other solutions?
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Are you talking about the branch circuit conductors for the lights? If they are on a 20A circuit, you must run at least #12 wire. With the lighting contactor, it's possible that the contactor could be on a 15A circuit, allowing #14 wire to power the contactor.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Yes,

I am talking about the branch conductors. You state that the lighting contactor (or lighting relay panel, which is a contactor) would use 14AWG if it were a 15Amp breaker. That implies that a 20amp breaker would use 12AWG.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Originally posted by eeee:
Yes,

I am talking about the branch conductors. You state that the lighting contactor (or lighting relay panel, which is a contactor) would use 14AWG if it were a 15Amp breaker. That implies that a 20amp breaker would use 12AWG.
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I would agree. I would look at the lighting load on each circuit to decide if a 15 or 20 amp circuit is better for your particular installation. Also, IMO as a general rule, #10 on a 15 or 20 amp receptacle circuit is a waste of money unless voltage drop is an issue.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I know it is standard to run 10AWG for 120 Volt receptacles for a best engineering practice (standard installation) run of outlets.
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(standard installation)? not in these parts! In situations where voltage drop might be a problem, a #10 home home, or complete circuit is occassionly seen. Terminating #10 on outlets can be a "bear". I agree with infinity, 12 or 14 for lightig is, of course determined by load. many electricians in this area prefer 14 for box fill and ease in terminating, and they desigen the circuit accordingly.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I agree with Augie47.

I would hate to terminate #10 conductors on a receptacle. I have only seen #10 conductors specified for home runs for circuits with a large voltage drop.

Chris
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I know it is standard to run 10AWG for 120 Volt receptacles for a best engineering practice (standard installation) run of outlets. That is what I have always seen and this is what is determined after the calculation is finished.
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What? Where have you seen this? Please show the calculation you used to determine #10 were required for a "standard installation".

As I have asked your previous posts,
What does the liscensed professional engineer under whom you are working (and who is sealing your drawings) say about this issue?
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By the nature of your questions, I am concerned that you may not have the experience necessary to be doing electrical design work. Don't get me wrong, we all had to learn and I had a lot of similar questions when I first started. However, that is the purpose of working under a liscensed PE. Unfortunately there are too many PE's who will stamp anything. I sincerely hope you are not working in such a situation. If you do not have a senior electrical engineer who you are comfortable asking these types of questions, I really encourage you to look for a new job.

This forum is a great place to learn the intricacies of the code. However, it is not the place to learn the basics of electrical design.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I find the best practice is to spec 2000 kcmil for everything. That way, all the bases are covered.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Originally posted by raider1:
I agree with Augie47.

I would hate to terminate #10 conductors on a receptacle. I have only seen #10 conductors specified for home runs for circuits with a large voltage drop.

Chris
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I would bet the terminals are not rated to accept #10 anyway.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by raider1:
I agree with Augie47.

I would hate to terminate #10 conductors on a receptacle. I have only seen #10 conductors specified for home runs for circuits with a large voltage drop.

Chris
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I would bet the terminals are not rated to accept #10 anyway.
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In the very rare occassion that I must terminate #10 on a receptacle, I use Stakon crimps.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I am interested to know where you learned that it is a standard to run No. 10awg conductors for 120 volt receptacles?
In commercial and industrial installations it is common practice to use No. 12awg conductors for incandescent, fluorescent lighting, and receptacles.
No. 14awg is used for residential installations for lighting and No. 12awg for small appliance branch circuits.
Number 10awg is commonly used in commercial and industrial installations to supply high intensity lighting fixtures supplied by 30 ampere circuits.
The rating of the lampholder determines the maximum size overcurrent device that can be used in the circuit.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

in comercial and industrial applications i have seen #10 used alot instead of running the extra circiuts needed once voltage drop was considered.

We usually pig tail the #10 in the j box, and run a #12 to the device because the 10 wire does not fit well.

I have never used #14 for power wiring in any industrial, or commercial building. Only for controls.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I have in years gone by when installing a three phase multiwire circuit to supply fluorescent lighting use #10 for the grounded (neutral) conductor.
This is the only place where I used a #10 on a 120 volt circuit.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

eeee,
12 awg for Fluorescent commercial/industrial (usually 277) and 14 awg for residential are the norm if 120V home runs are properly planned for line drop. Use any 10 awg left-overs for resi 240V waterheater and clothes dryer 30 amp flex hookups. :)
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

I am not new to design, but used to work in power generation for the state of Washington with all their large rivers. I have been working in distribution design for over 1 year.

My designer actually has #10AWG in most his projects running to the receptacles and he is licensed and stamping the drawings. Maybe he is pigtailing #12 to the receptacles, but it is just not shown in his drawings. That is where my claim for standard engineering practice came from as it relates to #10. I don't think this manufacturing faclility would have a voltage drop consideration. There is not extremely sensitive equipment there and no longer than normal electrical runs.

I noted that one responder stated that he does run #10 to J boxes, then pigtails #12 to the receptacles.

I expect to make sure that #10 is not run to the outlets, but most likely will use #12 for the flourescent lights and outlets (with calculations being observed of course to accomodate either a 15amp or 20amp breaker and to verify wire sizes).

Thanks for all your responses, but it does seem that there is quite a bit of different installation practices based on the different answers. This leads me to believe it may not be an elemental question, but I am gratefull and thankfull for your help. It helps my work here considerably so we can get these jobs done right.
 
Re: #12AWG or #14AWG Best for Flourescent Lights

Originally posted by eeee: My designer actually has #10AWG in most his projects running to the receptacles and he is licensed and stamping the drawings.
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Those of us who sign and seal the design drawings need to be familiar with the means, methods, and problem areas that are the daily life of those who install what we design. We are not taught these things in college. We can only learn them though interaction with the installation side of this business. For example, if you are doing a design for an existing facility, and if that facility's full time staff includes an electrical department or electrical maintenance personnel, then be sure to talk with them in the early stages of the design process. Learn what their concerns are going to be. No matter who pays the bills, the people who install what we design are our first set customers, and those who operate and maintain it are our second set of customers.

Stick around. No matter what part of the industry any person represents, participating in this Forum is the easiest way to learn through interaction with members of the other parts of the industry.
 
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