13,800 Safety

[Lithium1994]

My boss and I are working on a 13,800 switch at a factory in the area. The switch is energized at the top of the fuses, but is de-energized the rest of the switch. The spacer that holds the arc shield apart on one of the fuse legs is missing a screw and the in-house electrician shut down the whole manufacturing line till the arc shield spacer is in place. We have high voltage gloves, hard hat, arc shield, and safety glasses. The in-house will still not let us work on it saying we need a full arc suit. We asked him where he came up with this and he said he read it in NFPA 70e. So we asked him to point it out and he could not find it. The head of maintenance meanwhile is pissed that the in-shop electrician wont let us go near it, and there is no cut and dry safety plan in the factory for this type of thing. My boss is willing to do it with our safety gear, and has consulted with the safety guy at the Nuclear power plant in CT. But the in-shop guy will not let us near it. Does anyone know of the proper PPE for working on de-energized 13800 gear, and if so can you point out an article in NFPA 70e, or some source where we can find written documentation. Thanks for the help.

 

[chris kennedy]

I believe your looking for Table 130.7(C)(9) in the 09 NFPA 70E.

EDIT: Wrong table.

 

[cadpoint]

My boss and I are working on a 13,800 switch at a factory in the area. ...

Does anyone know of the proper PPE for working on de-energized 13800 gear, and if so can you point out an article in NFPA 80, or some source where we can find written documentation. Thanks for the help.

...........

A minimum of 1 PPE should be used by all of us in the trade daily.

This alone does not allow you to get in their gear!

Your situation like all other should be calculated then you'd know exactly your situation.
The Owner should pay to qualify you to do something in their gear, MO.
Are you going to hire someone ? This seems the real paradox!

 

[zog]

My boss and I are working on a 13,800 switch at a factory in the area. The switch is energized at the top of the fuses, but is de-energized the rest of the switch. The spacer that holds the arc shield apart on one of the fuse legs is missing a screw and the in-house electrician shut down the whole manufacturing line till the arc shield spacer is in place. We have high voltage gloves, hard hat, arc shield, and safety glasses. The in-house will still not let us work on it saying we need a full arc suit. We asked him where he came up with this and he said he read it in NFPA 70e. So we asked him to point it out and he could not find it. The head of maintenance meanwhile is pissed that the in-shop electrician wont let us go near it, and there is no cut and dry safety plan in the factory for this type of thing. My boss is willing to do it with our safety gear, and has consulted with the safety guy at the Nuclear power plant in CT. But the in-shop guy will not let us near it. Does anyone know of the proper PPE for working on de-energized 13800 gear, and if so can you point out an article in NFPA 70e, or some source where we can find written documentation. Thanks for the help.

Dude you ARE nuts! I could sit here all night and post the OSHA and NFPA 70E laws/requirements you are violating but the fact that you are even thinking about doing this hot and having to ask about what PPE is required scares the heck out of me. You need to stop right now and think about what you are doing. My company does work at every nuke plant in the U.S., I will call every safety guy in CT and make sure they are aware of the requirements for this specific job if you dont say you are scheduling a shutdown. The shop guy probally has already saved your life.

You could look at the tables in the 70E for the PPE requirements but first you need to look at Article 130.1 "Justification for work. Live parts to which an employee might be exposed shall be put into an electrically safe work condition before an employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards"

If you really think that doing this live is justified and there are no other options then I suggest you hire someone that has experience with this type of equipment (You obviously dont) to do it.

 

[Lithium1994]

Your situation like all other should be calculated then you'd know exactly your situation.
The Owner should pay to qualify you to do something in their gear, MO.
Are you going to hire someone ? This seems the real paradox!

not quite understanding what you mean there. We will sub someone if we have to, it's are job to lose. We are just trying to figure out if we have to or if we can do it with the safety gear we have or whether we have to get more, or hire someone else to do it.

sorry i dont know how to quote somebody, just did the old fashioned cut and past

 

[cadpoint]

Dude you ARE nuts! I could sit here all night and post the OSHA and NFPA 70E laws/requirements you are violating but the fact that you are even thinking about doing this hot.

Look at the last lines of OP !

It's hot above Fuses as they said.

 

[zog]

not quite understanding what you mean there. We will sub someone if we have to, it's are job to lose. We are just trying to figure out if we have to or if we can do it with the safety gear we have or whether we have to get more, or hire someone else to do it.

You are in over your head here, I dont want to see anyone get killed, please stop. Shut it down (That means in an electrically safe working condition per NFPA 70E and OSHA 1910.269)and install proper personal protective grounds that are rated for the availabel fault current in the system before doing this job. If you dont have the right equipment, hie someone that works on MV systems or let someone else get the job.

 

[zog]

Look at the last lines of OP !

It's hot above Fuses as they said.

I read it, it is still energized equipment per the NFPA 70E and this is still hot work. He is thinking of working way inside of the LAB for 13,800V.

 

[Lithium1994]

thank you zog I understand your point and no I do not have experience with this, I am just an apprentice trying to learn, it is my boss who is going to do this. He said he would do it, not me. For the amount of time we have already put into arguing with the shop electrician the job is way past being worth it. We are looking for written documentation that we can give to the head of maintenance that will justify either my boss doing it himself or subbing it out to another company. Just looking for a specific article. Sorry to tweak you the wrong way.

 

[zog]

thank you zog I understand your point and no I do not have experience with this, I am just an apprentice trying to learn, it is my boss who is going to do this. He said he would do it, not me. For the amount of time we have already put into arguing with the shop electrician the job is way past being worth it. We are looking for written documentation that we can give to the head of maintenance that will justify either my boss doing it himself or subbing it out to another company. Just looking for a specific article. Sorry to tweak you the wrong way.

Not twaeking me at all, you or your boss wont find anything to justify doing this job as planned, I provided the article and verbage from the 70E that prevents you from doing this. I fyou like I can dig up the OSHA (You know, laws!) taht prevent him form doing it also. Now if this is a safety related system (Per 10 CFR appendix B) at this nuke plant it may be justified.

My advice, let the job walk away.

 

[chris kennedy]

We are looking for written documentation that we can give to the head of maintenance that will justify either my boss doing it himself or subbing it out to another company.

Buy this, it is a short read.

 

[Lithium1994]

sorry to confuse you guys, its not a nuke plant, just a manufacturing shop. My boss has a buddy who is the safety guy at a nuke plant and consulted with him

 

[cadpoint]

thank you zog I understand your point and no I do not have experience with this, Sorry to tweak you the wrong way.

I'll answer with their answer, thanks Zog!

 

[chris kennedy]

Your situation like all other should be calculated then you'd know exactly your situation.
The Owner should pay to qualify you to do something in their gear, MO.
Are you going to hire someone ? This seems the real paradox!

not quite understanding what you mean there.

Very tempting but out of great respect for a good friend, I won't touch this.:smile:

 

[Lithium1994]

thanks guys for your help printed the thread and will let the boss read it. He can deal with it. Might be looking for a job when he gets fried anyone hiring?

 

[jim dungar]

The in-house will still not let us work on it saying we need a full arc suit. We asked him where he came up with this and he said he read it in NFPA 70e.

You need arc rated PPE based on either calculated incident energy levels or based the NFPA70E task tables. In my opinion, if you do not know how to determine, and prove to others, the correct PPE you are not qualified to be in that area. Simply donning a "full arc suit", while ignoring voltage boundaries, will probably not make you safer.

 

[cadpoint]

The NEC now requires use to place labels of Calculation of Flash Arc Potional... I hope its sealed drawing that one is working from to gather information from!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The NEC now requires use to place labels of Calculation of Flash Arc Potional... I hope its sealed drawing that one is working from to gather information from!

Where does the NEC require this?

 

[billsnuff]

Where does the NEC require this?

don, doesn't NFPA 70E 2009 require IE or PPE to be on the label now?

 

[jim dungar]

don, doesn't NFPA 70E 2009 require IE or PPE to be on the label now?

Yes NFPA70E-2009 does, but the NEC (NFPA 70) does not.