14/2/2 Romex question

[elecmen]

Went to the supply house to get some 14/4 romex. The supply house was out of stock but had 14/2/2 romex instead. My question is about the white wire with red stripe. Can I use this as a hot wire without re-identifying it or do I need to re-identify it ? The black and red are being used as travelers for a 3 way loop and the white as neutral.

 

[RWC/NC.]

Article 200.....207(C)(1)

 

[RWC/NC.]

Article 200.....207(C)(1)

Excuse me, 200.7(C)(1)

 

[Little Bill]

Since the cable is made and presented as having a 2nd neutral conductor, IMO you would need to re-identify it as an ungrounded conductor.

 

[AC\DC]

Since the cable is made and presented as having a 2nd neutral conductor, IMO you would need to re-identify it as an ungrounded conductor.

14/4 is colored for only one neutral, but you can phase tape another color to make it another neutral, that's fine so doing it backwards would be not problem

 

[Little Bill]

14/4 is colored for only one neutral, but you can phase tape another color to make it another neutral, that's fine so doing it backwards would be not problem

OP was talking about 14-2-2

 

[AC\DC]

Yes I understand, but a 14-4 is no different.
If 14-2-2 should not be phased different because it’s designed for two circuits. Then 14-4 should no longer be allowed to phased tape cause it’s designed for one nuetral and three current carrying conductors.
Best practice would be to use the correct cable.

 

[Little Bill]

Yes I understand, but a 14-4 is no different.
If 14-2-2 should not be phased different because it’s designed for two circuits. Then 14-4 should no longer be allowed to phased tape cause it’s designed for one nuetral and three current carrying conductors.
Best practice would be to use the correct cable.

I wasn't saying it couldn't be reidentified, in fact, I suggested it. I was only pointing out that the OP was talking about 14-2-2 and you mentioned 14-4. Either way it's a cable and is permitted to be reidentified.

 

[AC\DC]

you are correct I read over you post and miss read it. Sorry

 

[curt swartz]

14/4 is colored for only one neutral, but you can phase tape another color to make it another neutral, that's fine so doing it backwards would be not problem

In most installations 200.6(E) would not permit this

 

[AC\DC]

In most installations 200.6(E) would not permit this

I looked at that, you are correct. I was wrong. Should of read the book before answering.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In most installations 200.6(E) would not permit this

What about exception #1 to that rule?

 

[curt swartz]

What about exception #1 to that rule?

That is why I said most. I don't consider dwellings or pretty much any place NM is being installed meeting this requirement:
Where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That is why I said most. I don't consider dwellings or pretty much any place NM is being installed meeting this requirement:
Where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation

That is no longer in the code.

(2020 code)Exception No. 1:
Conductors within multiconductor cables shall be permitted to be re-identified at their terminations at the time of installation by a distinctive white or gray marking or other equally effective means.

 

[curt swartz]

That is no longer in the code.

Don, I wasn't aware of the change for 2020. I'm still using the 2017 electonic version. In the past years I always purchased the new version as soon as it is released but now that the NFPA want's money every year I was waiting until my area adopted.

 

[Fred B]

(2020 code)Exception No. 1:
Conductors within multiconductor cables shall be permitted to be re-identified at their terminations at the time of installation by a distinctive white or gray marking or other equally effective means.

This exception as worded is only making an allowance to re-identify an ungrounded conductor as a neutral grounded conductor, which prior was only allowed on larger conductors #4 and larger.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

(2020 code)Exception No. 1:
Conductors within multiconductor cables shall be permitted to be re-identified at their terminations at the time of installation by a distinctive white or gray marking or other equally effective means.

This exception as worded is only making an allowance to re-identify an ungrounded conductor as a neutral grounded conductor, which prior was only allowed on larger conductors #4 and larger.

That is correct and it was posted in reply to using one of the factory identifed ungrounded conductors in a 4 conductor NM cable as a grounded conductor. This has always been permitted for conductors smaller than 4 AWG that are part of a cable wiring method, but in codes prior to the 2020 it was only permitted "where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation".

 

[Fred B]

That is correct and it was posted in reply to using one of the factory identifed ungrounded conductors in a 4 conductor NM cable as a grounded conductor. This has always been permitted for conductors smaller than 4 AWG that are part of a cable wiring method, but in codes prior to the 2020 it was only permitted "where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation".

But OP appears to want to use the grounded conductor as an ungrounded conductor which has been allowed but it must be re-identified by marking as an ungrounded conductor. Just make sure it is identified at all accessible locations.

This is a nice new look at the re-identification of the reversed scenario that prior would not be allowed without the supervision criteria.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

How would that be any different than taking a 10-2, 8-2, 6-2 g and using it for a 240 volt ac circuit, water heater cir,air handler circuit and so on.
Most of time the white is right on the breaker with out any re- identification.

As an unwritten rule it's allowed in about all residential work where the volt is single phase 120/240. Also a lot of multifamily even though the service voltage is 120/208 three phase.

Now in some AHJ areas as amended. When 120/208 all conductors including the branch circuit shall be identified per there color coding rules.
So when there is a single phase feeder from a 120/208 service. It shall be identified as such. If the unit was feed with phase red and blue than the branch circuits shall be identified as such for that unit. That means no black white NM for that unit. Must be red/ blue white NM.
Seams crazy however then can enforce. If your area has an color coding rules
The key words to look for is multi family with (X) service. Or branch circuit wiring for a single phase panle feed from a three phase service or other than single phase service. When using mc for other type of construction for this application the rule would be the same.

I would say before doing check with local AHJ.

Also follow some good installation methods and use common sense.
You will notice that there is no mention of single phase.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How would that be any different than taking a 10-2, 8-2, 6-2 g and using it for a 240 volt ac circuit, water heater cir,air handler circuit and so on.
Most of time the white is right on the breaker with out any re- identification.

...

There two different discussions in this thread.
What you post is one of those discussions and the re-identification of the grounded conductor as an ungrounded conductor in a cable wiring method is permitted by 200.7(C)(1). However the code does require it to be re-identified and has for a long time.

The second is where a conductor of a cable assembly that is factory identified as an ungrounded conductor is re-identified for use as a grounded conductor. That is covered by Exception #1 to 200.6(E). Prior to the 2020 code that re-identification was only permitted where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation.