15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

[jay80424]

Hello everyone.
Is is safe to plug a 15 amp product into a 20 amp circuit? here is the scenario.

20 amp dedicated circuit. Plugged into that is a 15 amp surge protector (panamax). home theater components pluggeg into that.

also, lets say there is a ceiling mounted projector. can a romex be run from the projector, through the wall, with a duplex outlet on either end (basically an in wall extesnsion cord with female ends). Then a male to male wire plug in to the duplex in the wall and to the surge protector (making the projector outlet now "hot". Will this meet code?
Thanks

 

[iwire]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Originally posted by jay80424:
Is is safe to plug a 15 amp product into a 20 amp circuit?

Yes you can do that, there is no problem.

Originally posted by jay80424:
can a romex be run from the projector, through the wall, with a duplex outlet on either end (basically an in wall extesnsion cord with female ends).

No, do not do that.

Originally posted by jay80424:
Then a male to male wire plug in to the duplex in the wall and to the surge protector (making the projector outlet now "hot". Will this meet code?

NO do not ever make a male to male cord, and no it will not meet code.

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Thanks,
any suggestions on how to wire the projector so that is is protected by the surge at the equipment location? The problem is that there will be a product with line voltage conditining at one central location, and there multiple equipment locations throughout the room (am I making any sense here?)

 

[iwire]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

I get what your saying, here is the code on your previous question.

406.6 Attachment Plugs.
(B) Attachment plugs shall be installed so that their prongs, blades, or pins are not energized unless inserted into an energized receptacle. No receptacle shall be installed so as to require an energized attachment plug as its source of supply.

That said my first choice would be a second surge unit at the projector plugged into a properly installed outlet at the projector.

I know of no code compliant way to use your type of surge suppressor to feed outlets beyond the ones that are located on it.

There are strict restrictions on using flexible cord (extensions) for permanent wiring.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Thanks bob,
So I guess if you were to have a male pigtail comming out of the wall (hardwired), to plug into the surge protector, that would still break code since it would be an "extension" that is running through holes in the wall. The dilema is such that the projector is usually the most expensive piece of equipment, and the really high quality line conditioning product is located in the equipment rack.

 

[bwyllie]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

You can purchase receptacles with TVSS as part of the receptacle(more $$$) and plug the projector into that.

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Second question.

lets say I want the best possible electricity at a given outlet (projector for example) can I spec wiring for a 20 amp dedicated circuit (12 gauge?) at that location, but have a 15 amp recepricle and breaker installed? basically thicker wire in the wall.

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Originally posted by bwyllie:
You can purchase receptacles with TVSS as part of the receptacle(more $$$) and plug the projector into that.

I know, but they can't touch the line conditioning and filtration of the main surge unit, and the projector/plasma/DLP TV is where you can really pick up noise. We have really crappy electricity here.

 

[roger]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

This is what you need.



Roger

 

[iwire]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Jay you might try a search of this forum for posts concerning TVSS units.

There is a member named dereckbc (Member # 30) that is very knowledgeable on this subject, I believe that he has stated before that the further the end use device is from the surge protector the less protection you get.

So even though your rack mount unit is great, by the time you run from the rack to the projector it maybe worthless.

Yes you can put a 15 amp breaker on 12 AWG wire although I do not see this making any difference for you.

If it is dedicated for the projector it would be imposable to overload and on the chance of a ground fault or short circuit a 20 will trip as fast as a 15.

Bob

 

[iwire]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Roger remember we are partners on any sales of the "audio grade" devices.

 

[roger]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

You've got it Bob.

Roger

 

[dereckbc]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Jay if you want the best TVSS protection install a class C3, C2, or C1 TVSS device at your service entrance. The plug in modules you speak of are useless and serve no purpose unless you have a Cx device upstream. Just a money trap.

Install a dedicated circuit for your sensitive equipment. Do not fall into the trap of installing IGR if you have a wood frame home. Again a waist of good money.

[ August 05, 2003, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Originally posted by dereckbc:
Jay if you want the best TVSS protection install a class C3, C2, or C1 TVSS device at your service entrance. The plug in modules you speak of are useless and serve no purpose unless you have a Cx device upstream. Just a money trap.

Install a dedicated circuit for your sensitive equipment. Do not fall into the trap of installing IGR if you have a wood frame home. Again a waist of good money.

Sorry but I'm not quite up on all the lingo (C3,C2,C1, CX and IGR)?? I'm not sure if we are both talking about the same "Plug in modules". I'm looking for really good line conditioning and filtration for the equipment. The homes are all wood frame, but I don't see how that makes any diffrence, isn't the electricity comming in off the street the same?

 

[iwire]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Originally posted by jay80424:
Sorry but I'm not quite up on all the lingo (C3,C2,C1, CX and IGR)?? ....snip... The homes are all wood frame, but I don't see how that makes any diffrence, isn't the electricity comming in off the street the same?

IGR = Isolated Ground Receptacle

Often at this forum people ask about the need for IGRs for their PCs or Audio Visual equipment.

While these might be of use in metal frame buildings (conductive) or buildings using metallic raceways (pipe) they are of no benefit in a wood frame house wired with non-metallic sheathed cable (Romex)

A dedicated circuit wired with NM from the main panel in a wood frame building has an isolated ground already.

Dereck will need to help you with the class info.

[ August 06, 2003, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[dereckbc]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Jay does not sound like you are looking for TVSS.

There are several manufacturs that make power line conditioners for A/V use. Look for a model that has an isolation transformer.

Some popular manufactures are; Applied Research, ETA, Furman, Panamax, Tripp-Lite, Monster, and Equi-Tech.

Prices range is from 100 to 5000.

Personnaly I use Equi-Tech balanced power systems, but it is pricey. You will need to know what KVA demand you need before purchasing.

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Exactally,
the product I like to use is made by Knoll (actually sourced by Cinepro), although the Panamax stuff is real god as well. The Knoll piece is a balanced power isolation transformer. It's about 3 grand, and is 20 amps rated for 2400 watts. The problem is I can't seem to find a way to plug in the projector(and meet code), that is located elsewhere, into this unit, located in the equipment rack.

 

[dereckbc]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Equi-tech makes a wall unit that is basically a sub-panel with a built in transformer. You feed it 240 and can have multiple branch circuits. But it would require an electrician to install and wire out. It is high end stuff made for studios.

 

[jay80424]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Thanks, That sounds like what I am looking for

 

[hbiss]

Re: 15 amp device on a 20 amp circuit?

Equi-Tech makes some good stuff but I'm turned off by some of their claims that are aimed at the "lunatic fringe" audiophile. This kind of snake oil is in the same league as that gold plated receptacle for $147 that Roger showed us. It makes me believe that their stuff is artificially pricy because it's aimed at people with unlimited budgets who will believe anything if it sounds good. Make claims like that and right off your company loses legitimacy.

For your use I seriously doubt that balanced power and all that isolation make one iota of difference in what you see and hear and certainly not what these guys claim. Yes, you need the best surge supression you can get but unless the power is filthy and you know it's causing a problem that's all you need.

Of course if you and your customer are convinced otherwise and they are willing to pay the price more power to you, no pun intended.