Jerseydaze
Senior Member
I was always tought to run a 20 amp circuit for both . In a rough wire whrre you don't know the dishwasher or disposal. Has anyone goten burned running a 15 amp circuit?
15 amp dishwasher ? and disposal
- Thread starter Jerseydaze
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Typically one 20 amp for both, or two individual 15's is how it's done here.
I wired some condos once and as part of the closing the buyer wanted a disposal installed. The GC told me to rough wire for the DW only so I only ran a single 15 amp circuit (cord and plug connected.) Guess what I did to hook up the disposal? I plugged it into the dishwasher outlet. Immediately the sky fell.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Gus 210.23 (A)(2) would not apply if lighting ... were not on the circuit.
IMO, you would add the motor loads and figure 125% of the largest and see where that gets you.
sd4524
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
I can' see how a 15amp would work for DW AND Disposal on same circuit. I run dedicated 20 or 15 for DW and usually put GD on the small appliance/ counter top circuit. Never had a problem
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
That is a code violation!!!!!
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Putting a DW or GD on the same 20 amp circuit is fine and code compliant, putting the GD on the SABC is definitely a code violation, as the GD is not allowed on a SABC, which is only for small portable cord and plug connected appliances except for the exceptions on the fridge, clock, and range receptacle.
210.23(A) tells us we must comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
210.23(A)(1) says we cant exceed 80% for any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment, I think we can agree nether the DW or GD exceeds this.
(A)(2) only require a 50% limit if the circuit supplies other receptacles or light circuits, which the OP doesn't seem to?
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sd4524
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Good stuff Hurk. Guess I've been doing it wrong. Ive never got caught and never had a customer complain of breakers tripping. Seams like every tract home that I remodel the kitchen has a 2 gang box with a receptacle and switch for the disposal on the same circuit.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
One way I wired them was to run a 12/2 home run to a receptacle box under the sink close to the DW, breaking the hot tab on a duplex, then run a 12/2 up to the GD switch, then plug in the GD to the switched side of the duplex, then pigtail the DW and run the cord through the hole for the drain tube and plug into the non switched side
you can do the same thing with 14/3 home run but you have to have handle ties on the two 15 amp breakers or just use a double pole.
you can do the same thing with 14/3 home run but you have to have handle ties on the two 15 amp breakers or just use a double pole.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Lets get technical..:grin: A cord on an appliance is a violation unless the cord is listed for it. Thus the dishwasher must use an appliance cord listed for the purpose. 422.16(B)(2)
RICK NAPIER
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
You should look at the manufacturers instructions and see what they recommend. Whatever they recemmend is required if it is a UL listed peice of equipment. The following excerpt came from REPORT ON DISCUSSIONS DURING UL MEETINGS WITH ELECTRICAL INSPECTORS AT THE 2007 IAEI SECTION MEETINGS
Following manufacturer’s installation instructions.
Question
[FONT=IBJPFA+Arial,Arial][FONT=IBJPFA+Arial,Arial]AHJs are some times placed in a difficult position due to manufacturer’s installation instructions that are more stringent than minimum NEC? requirements. For a hot tub rated 50A, the installation instructions indicate that all supply conductors should be 6 AWG. The installer used an NM cable with a 10 AWG equipment grounding conductor. This would be a code-compliant installation, but had to be rejected by the AHJ because the instructions were not followed. [/FONT][/FONT]
Answer
Installation instructions provided with UL Listed products are reviewed as part of the Listing investigation. Manufacturer’s recommendations that are part of the installation instructions should be followed in order to comply with NEC? Section 110.3(B). The AHJ should expect all installation instructions provided with UL Listed equipment to be available for review at the time of inspection.
Sorry for the above type it pasted that way.
Following manufacturer’s installation instructions.
Question
[FONT=IBJPFA+Arial,Arial][FONT=IBJPFA+Arial,Arial]AHJs are some times placed in a difficult position due to manufacturer’s installation instructions that are more stringent than minimum NEC? requirements. For a hot tub rated 50A, the installation instructions indicate that all supply conductors should be 6 AWG. The installer used an NM cable with a 10 AWG equipment grounding conductor. This would be a code-compliant installation, but had to be rejected by the AHJ because the instructions were not followed. [/FONT][/FONT]
Answer
Installation instructions provided with UL Listed products are reviewed as part of the Listing investigation. Manufacturer’s recommendations that are part of the installation instructions should be followed in order to comply with NEC? Section 110.3(B). The AHJ should expect all installation instructions provided with UL Listed equipment to be available for review at the time of inspection.
Sorry for the above type it pasted that way.
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- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Rick, don't get me going on manufacturers requirements. It is amazing that the NEC sees a #10 as acceptable but the manufacturers of hot tubs are wanting a full size EGC. It irks me.
Jerseydaze
Senior Member
this is the situation the rough wire home owners says they want a dishwasher and a disposal that they havent picked yet. id like to run them as seperate circuits I usally run a 12-3 and have 2 20 amp circuits im trying to save a buck so id like to run a 14-3 and have 2-15 amp lines.Is it likely ill need a 20 amp circuit for dishwasher or disposal?
- Location
- Massachusetts
This means the use of UL Classified breakers is a violation.
UL has its head up its ...
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I suspect you can get by with a 15 amp circuit on the dw but you never know what the manufacturers specs will state. Run a 12/2 for dw and 14/2 for disposal. I never install a disposal on its own circuit. I usually will pick up the uc lights or something without a heavy load.
- Location
- Massachusetts
It is amazing that the NEC sees a #10 as acceptable but the manufacturers of hot tubs are wanting a full size EGC. It irks me.
It is amazing that you don't think the manufacturer, the entity that has to warranty and accept liability for the equipment, should not have a say in how it is connected to the supply.
I imagine almost all hot tub manufacturers have found themselves in court defending their products, maybe they find asking for more than the minimum helps them in court.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
It's almost xmas so I will just smile.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
My first resi company ran 12/3 on all jobs and I just kept doing that for the next 40 years. As an inspector of Megga houses in SW FL I saw many DW and DP circuits with 14 wire where it should have been 12 but the boss said "leave it alone". I would explane it to the EC on ruff in and most of then changed it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
It's almost xmas so I will just smile.
Forget that, say what is on your mind.
Am I to assume you feel once a manufacturer makes a product that they should have no input into how it is used even though they are the ones likely to be sued?
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