16 gauge stranded Knob & Tube?

[titan1021]

:huh:

I'm doing some work on an old house that is wired primarily with Knob & Tube. One of the switch boxes has (2) 16 gauge stranded wires that are wrapped with white threads and a black line running the length of the wire. I figured someone must have spliced the wire in the wall or attic. (It resembles the old bell wire only a little larger) So, I went up into the attic and discovered that this wire is run throughout the attic and house. It is splice and taped like the rest of the knob & tube, so I assume it is original wiring. Has anyone come across this before?
Aside from rewiring the house which I don't think the owner can afford, I figure on removing the 20amp breakers currently in place and trying to track down some 10amp breakers. Any info on this kind of wiring would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would not do this and imo this install is probably not legal with a 10 amp breaker. You would have to follow all the provisions of 240.4(D)(2). I don't that can be done and 210.23(A) allows a 15 or 20 amp branch cir. for lighting

 

[LEO2854]

:huh:

I'm doing some work on an old house that is wired primarily with Knob & Tube. One of the switch boxes has (2) 16 gauge stranded wires that are wrapped with white threads and a black line running the length of the wire. I figured someone must have spliced the wire in the wall or attic. (It resembles the old bell wire only a little larger) So, I went up into the attic and discovered that this wire is run throughout the attic and house. It is splice and taped like the rest of the knob & tube, so I assume it is original wiring. Has anyone come across this before?
Aside from rewiring the house which I don't think the owner can afford, I figure on removing the 20amp breakers currently in place and trying to track down some 10amp breakers. Any info on this kind of wiring would be greatly appreciated.

I would submit a proposal to remove and replace that #16 wire.


And if they do not give you the green light then i would wright a detailed letter to the Electrical inspector to cover your self in case something goes wrong.

 

[renosteinke]

From an academic point .... when did the NEC first require branch circuits to be 15A or larger?

From a historical angle: Has anyone else ever seen either wire like this, or stranded wire used for K&T?

For the OP: What's the service size? Any idea when it was installed?

 

[Besoeker]

:huh:

I'm doing some work on an old house that is wired primarily with Knob & Tube.

I have seen knob and tube mentioned a few times.
Being from across the pond it's jargon that isn't used here.
Tube I assume is conduit.
But knob?

Educate the ignorant Brit please....

 

[iMuse97]

I have seen knob and tube mentioned a few times.
Being from across the pond it's jargon that isn't used here.
Tube I assume is conduit.
But knob?

Educate the ignorant Brit please....

knobs are ceramic, thumb-sized insulators mounted to structure with a nail around which free-air conductors are attached. Tubes are ceramic tubes used to run these free-air conductors through building frame members. Check this for picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring

Also see this for additional information related to code: http://artisanelectric.net/blog/tip-of-the-day/knob-and-tube-wiring-what-you-should-know/

 

[jaylectricity]

I have seen knob and tube mentioned a few times.
Being from across the pond it's jargon that isn't used here.
Tube I assume is conduit.
But knob?

Educate the ignorant Brit please....

edit: unappropriate response

 

[al hildenbrand]

I'm doing some work on an old house that is wired primarily with Knob & Tube. One of the switch boxes has (2) 16 gauge stranded wires that are wrapped with white threads and a black line running the length of the wire . . . . (It resembles the old bell wire only a little larger) . . . . this wire is run throughout the attic and house. It is splice and taped like the rest of the knob & tube . . . . I figure on removing the 20amp breakers currently in place and trying to track down some 10amp breakers.

I work in the center of a seven county metro area, and, as a result of the housing stock that was built from the 1870s, on, have had a lot of experience with K&T.

The only time I have run into 16 gauge conductors strung in a classic K&T method has been when the conductors were part of a signaling circuit (doorbell or servant call), part of an early tube based radio antenna system, or a scabbed in handy person illegal install. -- Bare in mind that my seven county area has a history of State wide electrical inspection since the first years of the 1900s which has helped to weed out substandard installs like your client's.

The fact that you found a 20 Amp breaker protecting that circuit indicates that the insulation on the conductors has a likelihood of bad heat degradation.

 

[kwired]

From an academic point .... when did the NEC first require branch circuits to be 15A or larger?

From a historical angle: Has anyone else ever seen either wire like this, or stranded wire used for K&T?

For the OP: What's the service size? Any idea when it was installed?

Sounds to me like it is old fixture wire - like what was used from the outlet to the pendant lampholder. Probably was not a proper use of the conductors to install them as branch circuit conductors.

Todays equivelant is zip cord.

 

[Besoeker]

knobs are ceramic, thumb-sized insulators mounted to structure with a nail around which free-air conductors are attached. Tubes are ceramic tubes used to run these free-air conductors through building frame members. Check this for picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring

Also see this for additional information related to code: http://artisanelectric.net/blog/tip-of-the-day/knob-and-tube-wiring-what-you-should-know/

Appreciated, thank you.
Historical rather than current, it would seem.

 

[Volta]

From an academic point .... when did the NEC first require branch circuits to be 15A or larger?

From a historical angle: Has anyone else ever seen either wire like this, or stranded wire used for K&T?

For the OP: What's the service size? Any idea when it was installed?

GENERAL RULES - ALL SYSTEMS AND VOLTAGES.
14. Wires.
(For secial rules, see Nos. 18, 24, 32, 38 and 39.)
a. Must not be smaller size than No. 14 B. & S., except as allowed under Rules 24 t and 45 b.

24 t refers to fixture work, and is limited to #18, and 45 b is for pendant lamps.