16 smoke detectors Residential

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Hi everyone :bye:, i have a problem we have this house that we are wiring and ran into 16 smoke detectors in the entire home, it shows 2 circuits for smoke detectors, i called Kiddie to ask them what to do in this case and they didn't know, i know max. is 12 smoke detectors interconnected, anyone had this problem before?
 
Hi everyone :bye:, i have a problem we have this house that we are wiring and ran into 16 smoke detectors in the entire home, it shows 2 circuits for smoke detectors, i called Kiddie to ask them what to do in this case and they didn't know, i know max. is 12 smoke detectors interconnected, anyone had this problem before?

http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/products/fire-safety/smoke-alarms/rf-sm-acdc/

look at the specifications page:

Interconnects: Up to 24 devices (of which 18 can be initiating)
 
I don't think you have too many units, but if one does there are relay devices to link multiple "systems" together.
 
You can not have anymore than 12 smoke alarm detectors interconnected on 120-volt type smoke detector system that is unsupervised. Anymore than 12 and you will have to go to a supervised fire alarm system where the limit is 42 smoke detectors. See NFPA 72 Chapter 29...29.8.2.2

You will not see any instructions with a UL 217 listed 120-volt smoke alarm that allows more than 12 smoke alarms to be interconnected.
 
You can not have anymore than 12 smoke alarm detectors interconnected on 120-volt type smoke detector system that is unsupervised. Anymore than 12 and you will have to go to a supervised fire alarm system where the limit is 42 smoke detectors. See NFPA 72 Chapter 29...29.8.2.2

You will not see any instructions with a UL 217 listed 120-volt smoke alarm that allows more than 12 smoke alarms to be interconnected.
Ditto. :thumbsup: This is exactly correct. Can you get it to work with relays ? Probably. Will it pass inspection ? Probably not. Why take the chance and risk the liability if you do it wrong.
 
You can not have anymore than 12 smoke alarm detectors interconnected on 120-volt type smoke detector system that is unsupervised. Anymore than 12 and you will have to go to a supervised fire alarm system where the limit is 42 smoke detectors. See NFPA 72 Chapter 29...29.8.2.2

You will not see any instructions with a UL 217 listed 120-volt smoke alarm that allows more than 12 smoke alarms to be interconnected.
Does NPFA 72 apply to single family dwellings in as many places as NFPA 70 does?

I don't know or have NFPA 72 but would guess that limit of 42 would be per zone, as there are buildings that definitely have more then 42 detection units.
 
NFPA 70 only applies Code rules to the wiring.

NFPA 72 is one Code specifying Fire Alarm system and location rules.


Go to this link...

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...list-of-codes-and-standards?mode=code&code=72

Then click on "Current & Prior Editions"...

in there you will see "View Document Online" Free Access

open and go to chapter 29
I'm not challenging what NFPA 72 might say, my question was how many places is NFPA 72 adopted as law like NFPA 70 is and has inspections to ensure it is followed? Especially when applying to a single family dwelling?

Nobody as far as a legal AHJ is making us put in smoke or fire alarms around here. Electrical inspectors (who are enforcing NFPA 70) will look at the wiring if you install it, but have no way to make us install either system. Fire marshal does inspect non residential buildings, some which will require a fire alarm system, getting to be more that require it then there used to be, don't know if it is changes to NFPA 72 or changes within the Fire marshal dept, or a little of both.
 
Ok here is one link I found on the net...

http://www.constructconnect.com/building-codes/
I see for the areas I work there should at least be statewide adoption of IBC and IRC, but they are not enforced by anyone so the most it means is maybe someone can sue a contractor over not following that code. Poor footings or framing selections causing major damages to other parts of the structure, or failures during a fire or other catastrophic event that may have been minimized if such codes were followed maybe the most likely things that may bring up a lawsuit. Outside of such "civil suits" there is no AHJ making sure those codes are followed. We do happen to have a state wide electrical inspection program but it only has jurisdiction over electrical installs. Like I said if I install smoke alarms or a fire alarm system the electrical inspector will inspect what is there to NEC, but will not red tag me if I don't put in such alarms/systems because NEC doesn't require me to put them in.
 
Sounds like the Wild West!

In Massachusetts you can't sell a house without having it inspected by the local fire department to make sure it has a working smoke detector system. Need CO detectors by law also.
 
i'm trying to avoid having a supervised fire alarm system, i think my solution is to get rid of some of the smoke detectors like on the second floor landing from stairs he put an extra smoke detector in the middle of the hallway but my SD outside of the sleeping area will cover that landing, there is one in and outside of the media room and theater room my guess those are not sleeping areas and its label like that in permit drawings that will bring my count to 12
 
Sounds like the Wild West!

In Massachusetts you can't sell a house without having it inspected by the local fire department to make sure it has a working smoke detector system. Need CO detectors by law also.


I was thinking the same! wow! here in Mass you submit your plans to building department for review and also to Fire department and both will be inspecting everything. in a large complicated house you have the fire department do a prewire or rough wire inspection to ensure you're not screwing yourself.

And these fire prevention guys know NFPA 72 and other codes.
 
i'm trying to avoid having a supervised fire alarm system, i think my solution is to get rid of some of the smoke detectors like on the second floor landing from stairs he put an extra smoke detector in the middle of the hallway but my SD outside of the sleeping area will cover that landing, there is one in and outside of the media room and theater room my guess those are not sleeping areas and its label like that in permit drawings that will bring my count to 12






I think you're right. who's "he" that put SD in hall? architect? the architect drawings for a large house I wired with a fire alarm system had way too many smoke detectors which "he" designated SD/CO in too many places. The fire department reduced the total count to 13 or 14 and 4 SD/CO
 
At 10000 sf that house should have a fire alarm system and security system. Some home insurance companies will require that a fire alarm system be installed in a home that large. The owner will get a better rate on his insurance policy.
 
I think Florida is under the 2012 IRC and section 314 covers smoke alarms...
SECTION R314 SMOKE ALARMS

R314.1 Smoke detection and notification. All smoke alarms shall be listed and labeled in accordance with UL 217 and installed in accordance with the provisions of this code and the household fire warning equipment provisions of NFPA 72.

R314.2 Smoke detection systems. Household fire alarm systems installed in accordance with NFPA 72 that include smoke alarms, or a combination of smoke detector and audible notification device installed as required by this section for smoke alarms, shall be permitted. The household fire alarm system shall provide the same level of smoke detection and alarm as required by this section for smoke alarms. Where a household fire warning system is installed using a combination of smoke detector and audible notification device(s), it shall become a permanent fixture of the occupancy and owned by the homeowner. The system shall be monitored by an approved supervising station and be maintained in accordance with NFPA 72.Exception: Where smoke alarms are provided meeting the requirements of Section R314.4.

R314.3 Location. Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:1. In each sleeping room.2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.3. On each additional story of the dwelling, including basements and habitable attics but not including crawlspaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level.

R314.3.1 Alterations, repairs and additions. When alterations, repairs or additions requiring a permit occur,or when one or more sleeping rooms are added or created in existing dwellings, the individual dwelling unit shall be equipped with smoke alarms located as required for new dwellings. Exceptions:1. Work involving the exterior surfaces of dwellings, such as the replacement of roofing or siding,or the addition or replacement of windows or doors, or the addition of a porch or deck, are exempt from the requirements of this section.2. Installation, alteration or repairs of plumbing or mechanical systems are exempt from the requirements of this section.

R314.4 Power source. Smoke alarms shall receive their primary power from the building wiring when such wiring is served from a commercial source, and when primary power is interrupted, shall receive power from a battery. Wiring shall be permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than those required for overcurrent protection.Exceptions:1. Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power. 2. Hard wiring of smoke alarms in existing areas shall not be required where the alterations or repairs do not result in the removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for hard wiring without the removal of interior finishes.

R314.5 Interconnection.Where more than one smoke alarm is required to be installed within an individual dwelling unit in accordance with Section R314.3, the alarm devices shall be interconnected in such a manner that the actuation of one alarm will activate all of the alarms in the individual unit. Physical interconnection of smoke alarms shall not be required where listed wireless alarms are installed and all alarms sound upon activation of one alarm. Exception: Interconnection of smoke alarms in existing areas shall not be required where alterations or repairs do not result in removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for interconnection without the removal of interior finishes.

SECTION R315 CARBON MONOXIDE ALARMS

R315.1 Carbon monoxide alarms. For new construction, an approved carbon monoxide alarm shall be installed outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms in dwelling units within which fuel-fired appliances are installed and in dwelling units that have attached garages.

R315.2 Carbon monoxide detection systems. Carbon monoxide detection systems that include carbon monoxide detectors and audible notification appliances, installed and maintained in accordance with this section for carbon monoxide alarms and NFPA 720, shall be permitted. The carbon monoxide detectors shall be listed as complying with UL 2075. Where a household carbon monoxide detection system is installed, it shall become a permanent fixture of the occupancy, owned by the homeowner and shall be monitored by an approved supervising station.Exception: Where carbon monoxide alarms are installed meeting the requirements of Section R315.1, compliance with Section R315.2 is not required.

R315.3 Where required in existing dwellings. Where work requiring a permit occurs in existing dwellings that have attached garages or in existing dwellings within which fuel-fired appliances exist, carbon monoxide alarms shall be provided in accordance with Section R315.1.

R315.4 Alarm requirements. Single-station carbon monoxide alarms shall be listed as complying with UL 2034 and shall be installed in accordance with this code and the manufacturer's installation instructions.
 
Sounds like the Wild West!

In Massachusetts you can't sell a house without having it inspected by the local fire department to make sure it has a working smoke detector system. Need CO detectors by law also.

I was thinking the same! wow! here in Mass you submit your plans to building department for review and also to Fire department and both will be inspecting everything. in a large complicated house you have the fire department do a prewire or rough wire inspection to ensure you're not screwing yourself.

And these fire prevention guys know NFPA 72 and other codes.
Here in the wild west we don't really care to be regulated to death, though we are pretty relaxed with some of those types of regulations compared to some places, many still feel big brother watches too much.

More of the recent regulations regard environmental impact concerns, otherwise let people do what they want on their own property as long as is doesn't impact someone else.

Inspecting homes when they are sold around here - often is required by lenders more so then any laws or for the interest of the purchaser. Otherwise you are purchasing something as-is, there is no warranty on a used home. A new home being sold by the builder/developer is a little different situation, but should have been inspected by any AHJ that applies anyway.
 
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