2 Neutrals under screw

[Fordean]

Panel has no room for neutral separation. 2 neutrals under same screw. Need to make all separate. No grounds left to double up and free up a screw.


Adding ground bars. Screwing to main panel casing, Which is a bonded neutral bar, and it the main breaker (neutral and grounds together point).

Can i add a ground bar and put neutrals on it. I never do. And don't like the practice. But their is no alternative. Usually its called adding a ground bar. But i never put neutrals on it.

Only alternative is to get a better panel. Older QO panel with small neutral/ground locations. Someone already tied up all the grounds together

 

[roger]

Why can't you put an overall larger bar in to accommodate the neutrals and the EGC's?

Or, why can't you install another smaller bar and relocate all the EGC's to it freeing up room on the existing bar for your added neutrals?

The enclosure can not carry neutral current so you can not land the neutrals on a bar solely connected to the enclosure.

Roger

 

[Fordean]

All the grounds were removed leaving screws for neutrals. Even then not enough room. How can u expand neutral bar.

 

[just the cowboy]

Buy a bigger bar

Buy a bigger bar

See if you can find a bigger bar.

 

[ActionDave]

He said it's an old sq d so it prolly has one of those stupid horizontal neutral bars.

 

[Adamjamma]

do they sell extra neutral bars in usa yet? UK uses more than one neutral bar in split boxes, and more than one ground bar as well. Standard practice in UK is for all breakers, neutrals and grounds to match locations on bars... for tracing purposes and for testing.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Add a bar, or sell your customer a new panel.
What I don't understand is that there are more neutrals than screw holes and that there are less screw holes than legit circuits.
If there are doubled up circuits just pigtail the common neutrals.

Done deal.

 

[ActionDave]

do they sell extra neutral bars in usa yet?......

They used to, but we ran out.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Something like this. The question may be what size jumper do you use from the main neutral to this neutral? I believe that would depend on the calculated load.

 

[hbiss]

Usually there are spaces for at least one neutral and EGC for every breaker space. If you have MWBCs you should wind up with extras. What is it about this panel that requires so many neutral/EGC spaces?

-Hal

 

[GoldDigger]

Usually there are spaces for at least one neutral and EGC for every breaker space. If you have MWBCs you should wind up with extras. What is it about this panel that requires so many neutral/EGC spaces?

-Hal

Would filling all slots with duplex/tandem breakers likely do it?

 

[readydave8]

I read something recently that I'm not sure about:

Is it legal to in effect create multiwire circuits in panel?

For example:
Find neutrals for 2 circuits one of each leg

pigtail with one of same size wire to neutral bar

and of course add handle ties/rearrange breakers where nescessary

 

[GoldDigger]

I read something recently that I'm not sure about:

Is it legal to in effect create multiwire circuits in panel?

For example:
Find neutrals for 2 circuits one of each leg

pigtail with one of same size wire to neutral bar

and of course add handle ties/rearrange breakers where nescessary

If the pigtail is sized for twice the current, you would not even have to choose two neutrals fed from opposite phases.
From the point of view of safety if you should disconnect the pigtail, feeding them from the same phase creates the same shock hazard but will not apply excess voltage to connected equipment on either circuit.

 

[packersparky]

If the pigtail is sized for twice the current, you would not even have to choose two neutrals fed from opposite phases.
From the point of view of safety if you should disconnect the pigtail, feeding them from the same phase creates the same shock hazard but will not apply excess voltage to connected equipment on either circuit.

Wouldn't 200.4(A) not allow a larger size neutral to be used for circuits of different phases?

 

[hbiss]

Would filling all slots with duplex/tandem breakers likely do it?

Usually if a panel can accept tandems provisions are made with the neutral/ground bars but I agree you won't have enough if you are able to fill every space with a tandem. If that's the case it's time for a bigger panel or a sub panel anyway.

-Hal