#2 THW
- Thread starter normbac
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There are other markings just no AWG markings are as follows COLLYER WEST 2 THW (UL) oil resistant I
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I would say that the wire size (by AWG measure), namely "2", is given, the qualification of " AWG" is not necessary.
I am not sure how you would demonstrate to the satisfaction of an inspector that the insulation on the wire was undamaged by the original pull and the salvage operation.
Tapatalk!
I am not sure how you would demonstrate to the satisfaction of an inspector that the insulation on the wire was undamaged by the original pull and the salvage operation.
Tapatalk!
captainwireman
Senior Member
- Location
- USA, mostly.
An authorized use of the UL mark is the manufacturer's declaration that the product was ORIGINALLY manufactured in accordance with the applicable requirements when it was shipped from the factory. When the product is modified, in this case installed and uninstalled, UL has no way to determine if the product continues to comply with UL standards.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
From that we can say after the original install it is no longer listed. And I have no problem with saying it either as same goes for many other things, once you put them to use they very well may not be in same condition as they were in when they fully met the listing requirements listing IMO only means something for new and unused products. Now it is still a good thing to have a product that was listed when it was new.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Make some calls, find which scrap yard is paying the most and scrap it.
If you were a customer would you be happy if you got used equipment?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Most contracts require you use only new equipment, and unless you tell someone otherwise I think the UCC requires only new stuff be used.
I would want to look at it pretty closely before I would reuse it, but for an internal project I might well allow it. It is not much different than any other used gear.
I would want to look at it pretty closely before I would reuse it, but for an internal project I might well allow it. It is not much different than any other used gear.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If the marking says 2 thw then the inspector should know it is #2 THW so I don't see an issue. I have re -used wire that was in good shape and offered it at a reduced rate to the owner. Unless the wire is really messed up I would use it.--- not on a contract job tho, as mentioned above
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Many are happy with used equipment - as long as it doesn't come with a new price tag.
I don't quite understand some people's fuss about this. Many think that even new conductors should be megged after installing them, well why not the same for these used conductors? I know there may be some deterioration of the insulation as compared to when it was new, but just how much really depends on more then just age.
What about 40 year old conductor still on the reel and never been used before?
drktmplr12
Senior Member
- Location
- South Florida
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
This is accurate. The quality control is done at the manufacturing facility. Installing in accordance with the manufacturers requirements does not remove the UL listing of a product. When you actually modify the product is when the UL listing no longer applies. For example, if you have a control panel and install a terminal block with no wires connected to it, while benign, you have still modified the panel and the UL Listing TECHNICALLY no longer applies. A UL representative would need to do an inspection of the modified panel to relist the panel. A representative of the panel builder could not do this inspection to relist. It has to be UL (and you have to pay them for it too!).
As mentioned by petersonra, if this is contract work, there is a 99.99% chance there are provisions in the specifications calling for all new products to be provided.
kwired:
Meggering is usually required by specifications to ensure that the insulation was not significantly damaged during a pull. Electricians manning tuggers usually don't concern themselves with pulling tension calculations and the like. If you are an electrician that does concern yourself with that, then kudos for doing the right thing. This old cable will certainly perform less than new cable as far as a megger test, what if you pull the cable and the test results are not satisfactory? Do you attribute it to cable age or a pull gone wrong or both?
If it was me, I would scrap it and install new cable. The owner is paying for it, so if you are going to reuse old cable he will likely want a kickback. You might make another $100 in markups... but at what cost? The owner will still hold you accountable if something does go wrong. I don't see how an AHJ could be forced to accept a reused cable that has been pulled three times (1st install, removal, 2nd install). Then you'll be replacing cable at your cost!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I pretty much agree with what you said and also agree new conductors is often the way to go. I don't see how an AHJ can be forced to accept or reject a cable that has been used if it is otherwise in good condition or with local amendments stating otherwise.
drktmplr12
Senior Member
- Location
- South Florida
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
I agree that AHJ cannot be forced to accept or reject it barring obvious defects. I would gamble that he will look for a reference to reject it. I would be interested to see what code, if any, he could cite in order to compel the electrician to replace the cable.. I think that is what OP is actually looking for from this thread.
Here is a thread from 2008 about reusing old cable. There are good comments in it. Especially the one about the F-150! That is exactly what I picture happening and why I say scrap it.
One good recommendation from the thread: If you are going to reuse it.. meg it before you uninstall ...and after you re-install. This way you have a base point to work from. (I just realized that he has already removed it..hindsight is 20/20.)
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
We reuse wire all the time. Only the best looking stuff though, if it's scuffed or has a ton of drag marks, scrap!
sparkyrick
Senior Member
- Location
- Appleton, Wi
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
To be honest, I like the chances of the thicker walled THW taking more of a beating then I do newer THHN/THWN, new or used.
captainwireman
Senior Member
- Location
- USA, mostly.
"It is the responsibility of the AHJ to determine the acceptability of the modification or if the modifications are significant enough to require one of UL's Field Engineering Services staff members to evaluate the modified product."
I would assume the legal ramifications of this would fall on the Master/Administrator through documentation of handling and application. Then UL can wipe their hands clean of the matter, the AHJ could claim proper documentation was provided, and if something happened, the burden would be on the Master/Admin.
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