2 wire / GFCI

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shelco

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I have installed a GFCI recpt. in place of an old 2 wire. I cannot get it to trip with the tester. Granted it is just a cheap polarity checker with the GFI test button. Any thoughts?
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

No a plug in test can not trip a GFCI that does not have a grounding means. The tester needs a grounding means to cause the ground fault that is needed for the test.

Test the GFCI with it's built in tester, they do work as well or better than a plug in one.

The test button actually does test all the circuity, it is not a simple trip button.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Bob, although you can't test the GFCI without a ground, it should still work, right?
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Yes the GFCI will work fine without a grounding means.

The only problem here is with the plug in tester itself.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

This is new to me. I recently went on a home inspection (just as a learning experience) with a HI who used one of those testers on the outdoor, kitchen, and bathroom receptacles. I am certain that if he pushed the button and did not get a trip, he would have written it up as "no GFCI." So I now see that he might have been right, or might have been wrong, but he would not have been able to discern the difference. On that day, neither would I.

OK. That's my "learn something new each day" for today. Can I go back to bed now? :D
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Charlie,

The GFCI needs the ground wire for the plug in tester method only because it allows current to flow on the ground wire when the button is pushed, thus you have an inbalance on the hot and neutral causing the unit to trip.

The built in tester (I have seen the diagram) places the current flowing on the hot and neutral for the test but they grab the power at opposite ends of the device that measures/checks that the current is balanced. When you push this test button it appears that the current is not balanced and it trips. Sorry for the vague description on this, its just the best way I can describe it without the diagram.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Thanks for the info.
I suspected that you would need a ground for the tester but really wan't sure.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Perhaps hot and ground? How much current does a "Wiggie" draw?

(I am guessing this term is slang for "Wiggins." I recall that as being a brand name for some type of multi-meter.)
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

When I see the name Wiggy (An old brand name) I think of a solenoid operated voltage tester rated 120 to 600 volts.

I do not know what they draw at 120 but no doubt well above 5 ma.

At 480 they draw a pretty good arc.

Here is a Square D version, I think they bought the Wiggy name.

162357_3.jpg


[ September 16, 2005, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

IMO one of these solenoid type testers with the addition of a built in continuity tester is the best meter for basic line voltage trouble shooting.

It answers basic questions without interpretation.

Is the wire live or dead?

Is there Continuity?

These testers have no issues of 'phantom voltage' like low impedance DMMs.

[ September 16, 2005, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Yeah I had a HI right up a problem on a Kit remodel I did the existing 2 wire I put GFI on and added a 20A SA circuit. The tester worked on the new circuit but not on the 2 wire circuit. So I had to try to explain to him so he could explain to the buyer so they would buy the house and the builder would be happy....Whew, Now that I remember all that it was a pain in the you know what.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

I am certain that if he pushed the button and did not get a trip, he would have written it up as "no GFCI."
Click to expand...
Those plug in testers usually also indicate the absence of a ground. It seems to me that the HI would know enough about how the tester functions to realize that without the ground it will not trip a GFCI, and then just use the test button at the device to perform the test. Does anyone actually use those little sticky labels that come with the GFCI that indicate "GFCI protected" and "No ground present"?
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

geezer asked:
Does anyone actually use those little sticky labels that come with the GFCI that indicate "GFCI protected" and "No ground present"?
Click to expand...
Yes we do. Two different inspectors got us on two different jobs. HO removed the stickers on the first job. Second one the inspector was blind and couldn't see the lght blu on the plates. He also wanted additional grounding on a sub-panel :D :D
iwire said:
When I see the name Wiggy (An old brand name) I think of a solenoid operated voltage tester rated 120 to 600 volts.

I do not know what they draw at 120 but no doubt well above 5 ma.

At 480 they draw a pretty good arc.

Here is a Square D version, I think they bought the Wiggy name.
Click to expand...
charlie b said:
Perhaps hot and ground?
Click to expand...
What I have done is use a known ground, plug in an extension cord, insert one of the probes from the "wiggy" into the ground hole and the other probe into the "hot" on the GFI receptacle. TRIP I use the basement outlets, usually the laundry receptacle.
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

I use a Knopp solenoid voltage tester. It draws about 30 mills. This is enough current to trip a GFCI as well as the ground fault protection on an AFCI breaker.

In my neck of the woods, inspectors do insist on those stupid little blue stickers.

[ September 18, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: sparky_magoo ]
 
Re: 2 wire / GFCI

Does anyone know were in the code book that it tells you that you do not have to be grounded?? Had a inspector check my mom and dads house and he wrote that up in the bathrooms. It's a 45+ year old house. Thanks for the help.
 
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