2 wire receptacle outlets

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nizak

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Can existing 2 wire ( ungrounded) receptacle outlets be replaced with the same, or does there need to be GFCI protection and 3 prong devices installed?

Don't have my code book with me.

Thanks
 
We here in Michigan are fortunate to be exempt from the AFCI requirement.

Do they need to be tamper resistant ?
 
Just curious. Why would you want to replace 2 slot receptacles with 2 slot receptacles ? If you have to plug in a 3-prong cord you'll have to use an adapter. Why not use self-grounding TR receptacles ?
 
No equipment ground present.

House was built in 1950, limited use of 3 wire NM cable throughout.

Difficult rewire with basement ceiling completely finished.

Plaster interior, owner doesn't want to start cutting up the finish if it's not a code requirement.

Kitchen has grounded circuitry from a remodel done about 25 years ago.

I was able to fish the bathroom receptacles with a partial open wall for plumbing.

Bedrooms and living room area are the tough ones.
 
IMHO, if you have to replace the receptacles anyway I'd still use 3-slot TR's and mark the receptacle with "no equipment ground" labels.
 
goldstar said:
IMHO, if you have to replace the receptacles anyway I'd still use 3-slot TR's and mark the receptacle with "no equipment ground" labels.
Click to expand...
I was in a house once where some one filled in the ground with compound:lol: It was intentional as there was more then one. I would probably look for an outlet that fed others and use some gfi's and no ground labels on the others.
 
goldstar said:
IMHO, if you have to replace the receptacles anyway I'd still use 3-slot TR's and mark the receptacle with "no equipment ground" labels.
Click to expand...

IMHO, in the situation just described in the OP's posts, replacing two wire receptacles with two wire receptacles is a reasonable way to go.
 
goldstar said:
IMHO, if you have to replace the receptacles anyway I'd still use 3-slot TR's and mark the receptacle with "no equipment ground" labels.
Click to expand...
A label notwithstanding I would think that it would cause more problems than it would solve if the receptacles looked grounded but were not.
 
You can replace with three prongs if you put a GFCI in.

And why would AFCI's be required? You are not modifying, replacing or extending the branch circuit wiring.
 
cowboyjwc said:
You can replace with three prongs if you put a GFCI in.

And why would AFCI's be required? You are not modifying, replacing or extending the branch circuit wiring.
Click to expand...

Y'all Left coasters need to catch up.:cool:

Assuming the existing receptacle is in an area that now requires AFCI.

Receptacle replacement 2014

406.4(D)(4)

4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that re-
quires arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection as specified
elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this
outlet shall be one of the following:

(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-
interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit
type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type
arc-fault circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.
 
jumper said:
Y'all Left coasters need to catch up.:cool:

Receptacle replacement 2014

406.4(D)(4)

4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that re-
quires arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection as specified
elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this
outlet shall be one of the following:

(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-
interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit
type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type
arc-fault circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.
Click to expand...

Aww, well since I just got my code book two weeks ago, I haven't really had a chance to go through it. Thanks for the heads up.
 
I agree with a poster here who says that the labeling for no equipment ground will just raise questions. Perspective buyers, home inspectors, etc.

I've seen less important issues cause grief to home sellers.

" My second cousins uncle who was an electrician at ......... says that no ground is dangerous and that it can kill you" blah, blah, blah.....
 
goldstar said:
IMHO, if you have to replace the receptacles anyway I'd still use 3-slot TR's and mark the receptacle with "no equipment ground" labels.
Click to expand...
But then you need to provide a copy of 250.114 so the owner knows what equiupment is not permitted to be plugged into that receptacle;)
 
The main problems you will run into on a 50s era 2 wire NM setup is not so much the lack of an EGC, but the way it's wired; receptacles are often spidered out from a lightbox and not daisy chained, so you'd need a ton of GFCI receptacles and not be able to install many 3 prong receptacles from the load side. Second is box fill; those older boxes just will not accommodate GFCI receptacles often, even slimline ones. The boxes are metal and usually face-nailed to the studs with a pretty stout bracket, so if you plan on cutting them out, it takes a minute. Then there's the plasterboard and skim coat which can crack if you look at it the wrong way.

Overall, imho it's better to go with 2 prong replacements except in areas that really should have a GFCI, like bathrooms (which will mean cutting in new boxes as 50s era bathrooms had the receptacles in the light fixtures, which are probably long gone) and laundry rooms, outside receptacles. If the panel can accept GFCI/AFCI breakers, that may be your best bet.

VA code doesnt have to deal with the AFCI crap yet on replacements.
 
Need to look at Exception 1

jumper said:
Y'all Left coasters need to catch up.:cool:

Assuming the existing receptacle is in an area that now requires AFCI.

Receptacle replacement 2014

406.4(D)(4)

4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that re-
quires arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection as specified
elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this
outlet shall be one of the following:

(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-
interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit
type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type
arc-fault circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.
Click to expand...
 
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