200 Amp Service Upgrade San Jose CA

[tbakelis]

Hi Guys,

I've done a ton of upgrades before but not sure what the written law is in San Jose CA on what you can do with the service entrance conduit.

-Are 90s and LBs allowed?
-Does it have to be rigid conduit w threads the whole way?
-Can it run on the roof on blocks or does it have to travel below roof line and 90 up?

I've attached a picture of the existing service. It had been rerouted along roof top when addition was done years ago in order to avoid going over pool with service entrance wires.

Thanks in advance for the advice

Ted

 

[kwired]

Hi Guys,

I've done a ton of upgrades before but not sure what the written law is in San Jose CA on what you can do with the service entrance conduit.

-Are 90s and LBs allowed?
-Does it have to be rigid conduit w threads the whole way?
-Can it run on the roof on blocks or does it have to travel below roof line and 90 up?

I've attached a picture of the existing service. It had been rerouted along roof top when addition was done years ago in order to avoid going over pool with service entrance wires.

Thanks in advance for the advice

Ted

Can't speak for the local code/amendments in that location, but changes in 2014 NEC make you pay more attention to the temperature and adjustment factors for the conductors in the raceway on/above the roof.

 

[flatlander]

I would say not allowed on the roof. That is really a POCO decision.

Usually the POCO does not want anything that can hamper re roofing. If the POCO is a CA public utility as a general rule they won't allow it. Many have done away with roof type attachments.

 

[Ponchik]

How far is the panel away from the pool?
You can put it under the eave then 90 up at the end.

 

[electricguy61]

What you can do isn't just a City of San Jose issue, but PG&E as well. You should get a copy of their Green Book. Here's a link to it online:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pd...eenbook/servicerequirements/2010_gb_final.pdf

I agree about putting it under the eave due to temperature and re-roofing issues. I'm surprised that passed inspection.

I have used condulets (LB's) on a service, but officially there must be a way for PG&E to put a seal through it to resist tampering.

Something I've done in similar situations is remove the existing meter/main and replace it with a large jbox, then pipe to the new meter main at the other end. It may require upsizing the branch circuit conductors one size because of more then 3 current carrying conductors in a conduit. But it would also remove the panel from the front of the swimming pool, which might be a good thing.

 

[tbakelis]

Thanks for the input. It sounds like traveling under the eave and then going vertical is my install route. Avoiding an LB is going to be tough because of the radius on the 90 have to start low to make it through roof. Unless there is an LB sold out there that allows PGE to seal it?

Thanks again.

 

[Ponchik]

How far away is the pool from the panel?

 

[GerryB]

Hi Guys,

I've done a ton of upgrades before but not sure what the written law is in San Jose CA on what you can do with the service entrance conduit.

-Are 90s and LBs allowed?
-Does it have to be rigid conduit w threads the whole way?
-Can it run on the roof on blocks or does it have to travel below roof line and 90 up?

I've attached a picture of the existing service. It had been rerouted along roof top when addition was done years ago in order to avoid going over pool with service entrance wires.

Thanks in advance for the advice

Ted

Never fly around here. They enforce 230.24 (A). 3 feet to 8 feet depending what part of the roof you cross.

 

[kwired]

How far away is the pool from the panel?

Not sure but looks like possibly the corner of a pool in the lower right corner of image in OP. If so looks mighty close to the meter/loadcenter.

 

[tbakelis]

The homeowners have already contacted the city about being able to upgrade without having to move the service (because of proximity to pool) The city said yes go ahead and upgrade in existing location. Which leaves the fiasco with running the conduit over and up.

 

[kwired]

Seems as though it shouldn't be allowed to place that meter - and assumed main or loadcenter combintion as close to the pool as it appears to be - but yet I am not finding anything to cite as a violation. I do see the potential for violations had the service drop attached directly above the meter though. But same install should have been OK to run the service raceway below the roof instead of above the roof- but as some have mentioned the POCO maybe did not allow conduit bodies or other potential access points to the unmetered conductors, though if you want to steal power - it is actually much easier and safer to tap right to the service drop than it is in a conduit body and all you need in this instance is a ladder to get on the roof:roll:.

 

[Ponchik]

The homeowners have already contacted the city about being able to upgrade without having to move the service (because of proximity to pool) The city said yes go ahead and upgrade in existing location. Which leaves the fiasco with running the conduit over and up.

With SJ, Make sure you have that in writting.

 

[hgrace]

Better Location

Better Location

I'd put the new 200 below where the weather head is or around the corner, pull the old Meter and replace it with 40 space sub and re-feed it under the eves.

 

[GerryB]

The homeowners have already contacted the city about being able to upgrade without having to move the service (because of proximity to pool) The city said yes go ahead and upgrade in existing location. Which leaves the fiasco with running the conduit over and up.

Can you upgrade it just as it is, on the roof? If it was approved for 100 amp then why wouldn't it be approved for 200. Also if you needed an LB they come with gaskets, don't think you would need any extra sealing.

 

[TommyO]

Also if you needed an LB they come with gaskets, don't think you would need any extra sealing.

I'm pretty sure he meant sealing as in tamper-evident seals. (like on a meter box)

 

[Harley Dan]

You are going to need to fill an application with PG&E. They always want the meter as close to the front as the house as possible for easement reasons. They don't like LB's. If you use one, it needs to be able to lock. In other words, you will need to put a screw similiar to the panel that has a hole for there non tamper wire to go in. Hope that helps.

 

[tbakelis]

I'd put the new 200 below where the weather head is or around the corner, pull the old Meter and replace it with 40 space sub and re-feed it under the eves.

Interesting. That is a really good idea. Slight increase in cost because of additional panel. Only other thing is we would have to submit to city/poco for relocating main.

 

[kwired]

Interesting. That is a really good idea. Slight increase in cost because of additional panel. Only other thing is we would have to submit to city/poco for relocating main.

Do they need that kind of details on permit applications there? Around here permit application would have "new 200 amp service" on the permit (actually 101 - 200 amps are all in same category here for permit fees). What was there before really doesn't matter as long as finished install is a NEC compliant 200 amp service.

POCO I understand some can be a pain about some things, but you are changing from something somewhat "abnormal" to something more "typical" and actual route of their drop cable would hardly change any.

I don't know that I would say slight increase in cost because of additional panel, if anything you save on conductor size because as it is on the roof now I bet you need to increase conductor size and likely raceway size for ambient temp correction - at least if 2014 NEC applies, and you are using new 310.15(B)(7), old (B)(7) was not as clear as to whether or not you needed to make ampacity adjustments for ambient temp or number of conductors in raceway, and most people never did make adjustments AFAIK in such a situation.

 

[tbakelis]

Your logic is sound... But sometimes that isn't enough! Ha!