200 amp Service

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bwilson@hoover.com

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My electrical supplier was showing me a 200 amp lug kit that is placed into two breaker slots and has lugs for another 200 amp panel.
My supplier said you could place this in your first 200amp panel and come off of this lug kit to and other 200 amp panel. This is all from a 200 amp Service. Is this legal? and if so do you treat the second 200 amp panel as a sub panel or what?
I would like to use this in a house with a large quanity of circuits but will have little load.
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Is the panel UL listed for the accessory for that panel? It sounds as if it's a set of subfeed lugs.
If used will the installation comply with, if applicable,a 6 disconnect and/or tap rule to supply the second panel if I understand as to what you are trying to do correctly?
 
Re: 200 amp Service

I will assume :p the part is listed for the purpose.

It is not a tap, it is a 200 amp feeder as these added lugs will be protected at 200 amps from the main breaker.

The added panel as long as it is rated 200 amp will not require a main.

No mater where you locate this panel, chase nippled to the service panel or in another area of the house I would treat it as a "other than service panel" in other words an isolated neutral bar and a separate grounding conductor.
 
Re: 200 amp Service

bwilson:

I have done just what you are desrcibing with 100 amp residential services. To do it with 200 amp? You need to make sure the bus in the panel is rated for 200 amp loads. In residential loadcenters I am not sure you will find this.

In my opinion you would need to separate the neutrals and grounds. I do.

In fact this type of design is used in hotels where they have a pnel on the first floor with lugs at the top and bottom of the panel (no main breakers in the panels. They bring one feed into the first panel then come off of the secondary lugs and feed a panel on the floor above. I have even seen them use tap rules to make the feeders to the next floor smaller than the feeders to the first panel.
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Fish: See 310.15(B)(6), and particularly the bold, added by me.

(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For dwelling units, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase service-entrance conductors, service lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to a dwelling unit and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section, the main power feeder shall be the feeder(s) between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard(s). The feeder conductors to a dwelling unit shall not be required to be larger than their service-entrance conductors. The grounded conductor shall be permitted to be smaller than the ungrounded conductors, provided the requirements of 215.2, 220.22, and 230.42 are met.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Hi Ryan

I dont understand, why doesn't 215.2(A)(4) apply. In my opinion this wouldn't be a " main power feeder to a dwelling".

[ March 29, 2004, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: fishin' electrician ]
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Just look at feed thru 200 amp panels for moblies ,same thing ???
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Hi Fishin' electrician. This couldn't be called a "main power feeder" because a main power feeder has to originate at the service equipment. The feeder in this scenario goes from a lighting and appliance branch circuit panelboard to another lighting and appliance branch circuit panelboard, making it a typical, garden variety feeder and not a "main power feeder".

Also, notice that 215.2(A)(4) refers you to paragraph 310.15(B)(6), and not directly to the table. Therefore, the verbage of 310.15(B)(6) would apply only to the feeder supplying the first panel...but not the second.
Does that make sense?
 
Re: 200 amp Service

The more I read 215.2(A)(4) the more it seems that any and all feeders in an individual dwelling or mobile home may use 310.15(B)(6). What am I missing?

If 215.2(A)(4) is going to send me to 310.15(B)(6), which then says only "main power feeders", why does 215.2(A)(4) even exist?

[ March 29, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: fishin' electrician ]
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Originally posted by fishin' electrician:


If 215.2(A)(4) is going to send me to 310.15(B)(6), which then says only "main power feeders", why does 215.2(A)(4) even exist?
Click to expand...
215.2(A)(4) exists for a couple of reasons. First, there must be something in article 215 that tells you how to size a feeder. Second, it is there to tell you that you have the luxury of using 310.15(B)(6) if you meet the definition of a main power feeder.

For example: Would you use 310.16 or 310.15(B)(6) in residential to go from a panel to a fused A/C disconnect? That is a feeder circuit, but it certainly is not a main power feeder.
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Thanks Ryan. I think I was getting stuck in that 215.2(A)(4) says for dwellings and 310.15(B)(6) says to. I see why that's the case. Appreciate it! :)

[ March 29, 2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: fishin' electrician ]
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Ahhh, now I really see why I was so confused. I was trained under the '93 code and remember being taught that feeder conductors didn't ever have to be larger than service entrance conductors. Sure enough 215.2 in the '93 refers directly to the table.
 
Re: 200 amp Service

Two panelboards can be considered as one. See definition of panelboard, Article 100.
 
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