200 amp single family dwelling service size

[nizak]

I know this may sound like an off the wall question but here goes.

Has anyone here ever been called to a single family residence with a 200 amp single phase service ( I’ll use 4000 sq ft as a max size) that is experiencing a main breaker trip due to overload?

I never have in 28 years.

Many customers are wanting 400 amp services installed and it’s almost impossible to get the local utility to approve it.

They say that they don’t install for future expansion , the scoping document I fill out is what they base the underground service lateral size to.

How common is it to see 200amps of load even with EV chargers, electric appliances, etc?

 

[James L]

I wired a 3700 sf house 2 years ago with a 200a service, and stuff kept getting added/changed/ or new info. I started to worry a bit

It had a dual fuel range 30a, electric dryer 22a, 2 ACs 12a & 27a, crazy amount of lighting, too. All good, right?

Then I found out the attic furnace was 10kw electric, add 41a. Then I found out the 2 water heaters were electric, add potentially 35a. Then they added a car charger, add 32a. Then the brought in a big kiln to do pottery in the garage, add 40a.

I haven't heard a peep about any problems.

 

[augie47]

Never had on trip on load

 

[nizak]

That’s very interesting.

 

[LarryFine]

I had a customer tripping their 200a main (outside, far side of the house, pain in their rears) when they tried using their new tankless water heater using all four 40a circuits, and three just didn't cut it.

The guy did his own "wiring" and had an over-stuffed panel full of tandems and 2-poles. He also ran individual conductors through separate knock-outs and through framing from panel to tankless.

I pulled a permit, replaced the meter base, added a second 200a main and new GECs, ran SE to a new main-lug panel inside, removed the neutral bus, four breakers and four real cables to the heater.

 

[LarryFine]

I haven't heard a peep about any problems.

It all depends on how much they want to run simultaneously.

 

[nizak]

I had a customer tripping their 200a main (outside, far side of the house, pain in their rears) when they tried using their new tankless water heater using all four 40a circuits, and three just didn't cut it.

The guy did his own "wiring" and had an over-stuffed CH panel full of tandems and 2-poles. He also ran individual conductors through separate knock-outs and through framing from panel to tankless.

I pulled a permit, replaced the meter base, added a second 200a main and new GECs, ran SE to a new main-lug panel inside, removed the neutral bus, four breakers and four real cables to the heater.

So you ended up with 400 amps of capacity when it was all said and done?

 

[LarryFine]

So you ended up with 400 amps of capacity when it was all said and done?

Yes, or 320/400 as they call residential 400a here. I have some pics somewhere.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

I had a new customer call me a few years ago saying when he takes a shower he trips the main. I looked and saw he had 200 amps and he installed a tankless 200 amp (or close to it, I can't remember exactly) he had wired it correctly, (I think 4 50 amp breakers). So he now he said he has to turn off the main while he takes a shower. I told him I wasn't surprised. He asked me what he could do to remedy it. I said disconnect the tankless and reconnect the 30 amp w h that was still sitting in his basement. He said, no way! "I'm tired of taking cold showers !" "What can I do to keep this heater?"
I gave him the estimate of 400 amp service (320) and he had us upgrade. ( POCO had to replace their underground wires, tore up his yard).
A bigger job than I like to do in one day. I don't mind upgrading from 100 to 200 for an occupied house, but that day was long and hard for me.
Actually I don't like the 100 to 200 either, especially when Duke E. around here says we have to be done by 1 pm ! That's the same POCO that came yesterday to a job at 10:30 for me to do a meter repair, after they told us they could come at 9.

 

[Sberry]

I havnt worked on tankless, never thought it was a great idea to sock the service with 160A every hand wash but I have never ran across an overloaded 200 from a typical. 60 fuses yes,,, only 200 was in a tavern and the amount of connected was astronomical incl at least 4 50A fryers and another 50 broaster plus walkins, AC, 3 micro, coffee posts, 3 or 4 fridges and this was way before cfl or led was a wet dream.
I ran a welding shop from 100. never a trip.

 

[readydave8]

Had a lake house with 2@200 Siemens main breaker, heat pumps would trip one when customer came up for weekend and raise all 3 thermostats, heat pump heat strips all came on

It was pulling around 165 amps, supplier said it was supposed to trip because more than 80% of 200

Changed out main breaker and explained to customer, never heard of it tripping again

 

[retirede]

I have a 200A with a pool that has a heat pump, and also a 48A EVSE. Never had a problem. I do have gas stove and hot water.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have seen 200 amp breakers go bad but it wasn't due to overloading. Did you check with an amp meter

 

[infinity]

It was pulling around 165 amps, supplier said it was supposed to trip because more than 80% of 200

Time for a new supplier.

 

[readydave8]

Time for a new supplier.

They went out of business, maybe 25 years ago

 

[tortuga]

Since around ~2013 all the new larger 'rural homesteads' or Mc Mansion's here are all electric and get a 320A meterbase. It used to be people buried a large propane tank and also had gas heating / cooking. But now the propane and delivery charges have gone up so much and heat pumps have improves so much builders just go with all electric. One of the utilities here requires 3" PVC for 200A and up laterals, so then its a no brinier to just put in a bigger meterbase. Even down in CA with more expensive electricity propane seems to be in decline.

 

[letgomywago]

Since around ~2013 all the new larger 'rural homesteads' or Mc Mansion's here are all electric and get a 320A meterbase. It used to be people buried a large propane tank and also had gas heating / cooking. But now the propane and delivery charges have gone up so much and heat pumps have improves so much builders just go with all electric. One of the utilities here requires 3" PVC for 200A and up laterals, so then its a no brinier to just put in a bigger meterbase. Even down in CA with more expensive electricity propane seems to be in decline.

Propane for heating air and water is about 4 times as expensive as electricity to do it. Natural gas is cheap but it's getting fazed out in some areas now.

 

[AC\DC]

Check for a loose/ damage connection on the line side of the main breaker. I have had two that were tripping main from heat up.
I would also call powercompany and see what there highest peak demand is.