2005 NEC
- Thread starter nec4me
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ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: 2005 NEC
I would consider a business as commercial. Am I missing something?
I would consider a business as commercial. Am I missing something?
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: 2005 NEC
Pcture this:
Office bldg w/ what we commonly call a kitchen which has a sink, disposer and counter. Counter recep's are installed for appliances such as micro and coffee maker, but they are not built in.
This does not appear to be a kitchen to me per the def. quoted.
Am I missing the intent here?
Pcture this:
Office bldg w/ what we commonly call a kitchen which has a sink, disposer and counter. Counter recep's are installed for appliances such as micro and coffee maker, but they are not built in.
This does not appear to be a kitchen to me per the def. quoted.
Am I missing the intent here?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: 2005 NEC
I would call it a ?kitchen,? for the purposes of the NEC article. The key word is ?permanent?; the cited statement does not say, ?permanently fixed in place.? A microwave oven is intended to remain in place indefinitely (and to be replaced with another one, if it breaks), even though it could be easily moved. That makes it ?permanent,? by my way of thinking.
I would call it a ?kitchen,? for the purposes of the NEC article. The key word is ?permanent?; the cited statement does not say, ?permanently fixed in place.? A microwave oven is intended to remain in place indefinitely (and to be replaced with another one, if it breaks), even though it could be easily moved. That makes it ?permanent,? by my way of thinking.
Re: 2005 NEC
Posted by Ryan:
Steve
Posted by Ryan:
I think (and I may be wrong) that BOCA and the IBC both define a "Business" occupancy differently than a "Commercial" occupancy. I'm just wondering if the NFPA has any similar definitions, or if like you said, a business is a commercial occupancy.
Steve
Re: 2005 NEC
steve66,
The IBC doesn't have a definition for "commercial", but in my opinion, a business is a commercial endeavor. Are you thinking of a group M merchantile occupancy which is diffrent than a group B business occpuancy? I would considere both to be commercial in nature. Unless of course the offices were for a school or or the institution, then the kitchen would be institutional
steve66,
The IBC doesn't have a definition for "commercial", but in my opinion, a business is a commercial endeavor. Are you thinking of a group M merchantile occupancy which is diffrent than a group B business occpuancy? I would considere both to be commercial in nature. Unless of course the offices were for a school or or the institution, then the kitchen would be institutional
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: 2005 NEC
Charlie I would not consider a microwave as permanent. What is the difference between this and a coffee maker, or toaster oven etc. Once again the NEC is as clear as @#$*&? mud. Friggin' ridiculous. For this I have to fork over another bundle of cash for an "Updated" book. Stick 'em up suckers. :roll:
[ October 07, 2004, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
Charlie I would not consider a microwave as permanent. What is the difference between this and a coffee maker, or toaster oven etc. Once again the NEC is as clear as @#$*&? mud. Friggin' ridiculous. For this I have to fork over another bundle of cash for an "Updated" book. Stick 'em up suckers. :roll:
[ October 07, 2004, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 2005 NEC
There are plug in skillets and burners-----------
There are plug in skillets and burners-----------
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: 2005 NEC
Again, there is a difference between ?permanent? and ?permanently fixed in place.?
In the State of Washington, at least, there is no difference. WAC 296-46B-210 defines ?Kitchens in other than dwelling units? as ?any work surface where food and/or beverage preparation occurs and other countertops or islands.? So a coffee pot on a countertop is enough to call the surface a ?kitchen.?
Again, there is a difference between ?permanent? and ?permanently fixed in place.?
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 2005 NEC
I do not have my copies of the ROP and ROC in front of me, but I believe that the intent of 'permanent' was not to include microwaves that are not permanent, such as a countertop cord and plug type unit.
Don,t forget that the 'kitchen' has to include a sink.
Pierre
I do not have my copies of the ROP and ROC in front of me, but I believe that the intent of 'permanent' was not to include microwaves that are not permanent, such as a countertop cord and plug type unit.
Don,t forget that the 'kitchen' has to include a sink.
Pierre
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: 2005 NEC
This exact issue came up yesteday in Mike Holts first 2005 NEC Update seminar.
NEC4me who did you order the NEC from?
By the way, Mike Holt has 2005 NEC's in stock in his office, 1-800-NEC-Code.
This exact issue came up yesteday in Mike Holts first 2005 NEC Update seminar.
NEC4me who did you order the NEC from?
By the way, Mike Holt has 2005 NEC's in stock in his office, 1-800-NEC-Code.
Re: 2005 NEC
www.electrical-contractor.net, $55.00, paperback.
[ October 08, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: nec4me ]
www.electrical-contractor.net, $55.00, paperback.
[ October 08, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: nec4me ]
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