2008 or 2011 NEC

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pdmtn

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I would like to hear from some of you who have been working on the 2008 code for a while now. Has it been the nightmare so many thought it would be? Will you be changing to the 2011 code ? Thanks as always.
 
Hasn't been a problem as it's been enforced for the past year, and I've had a copy to study with since they came out in Oct. '07.

I have no clue when the State Board in Iowa will ever adopt the '11. It probably won't be for another 2 years or so.
 
I would say that the 3 things that have caused the most controversy are AFCI's, TR recp. and derating SER cable. The first two were more of an economical problem due to increased cost of the install in the eyes of GC's. The SER rating is still an issue due to derating. It boils down to increasing the wire size or step the OCP down.
IMPO about the SER ruling I feel it was something that was done by a wire company to boost their bottom line and has very little or nothing to do with safety.
 
AFCI's are a very costly change, along with the the change with running pipe in the roof of a commercial application. Running pipe 1 1/2" down from a roof is a huge labor expense...before you could run 300' of pipe from one location, now you have to move every 10'.
 
TT009 said:
AFCI's are a very costly change, along with the the change with running pipe in the roof of a commercial application. Running pipe 1 1/2" down from a roof is a huge labor expense...before you could run 300' of pipe from one location, now you have to move every 10'.
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Please elaborate I dont understand what you are saying??
 
quogueelectric said:
Please elaborate I dont understand what you are saying??
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An AFCI breaker is about $35 vs. $6

and 300.4(E) says you cant run conduit 1 1/2" below the roof deck...

In a commercial application the roof deck has ribs which you could run conduit in. You could put 10' of conduit in the rib couple another 10' of conduit together and so on... You could run this as long as you wanted.

Now you have to strap the conduit every 10' on the braces of the roof. You either need to move your lift/ ladder every time, where as before you could have coupled hundreds of feet together from one location.
 
TT009 said:
and 300.4(E) says you cant run conduit 1 1/2" below the roof deck...

In a commercial application the roof deck has ribs which you could run conduit in. You could put 10' of conduit in the rib couple another 10' of conduit together and so on... You could run this as long as you wanted.

Now you have to strap the conduit every 10' on the braces of the roof. You either need to move your lift/ ladder every time, where as before you could have coupled hundreds of feet together from one location.
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This is because of the length of the screws. They WILL go through EMT.
 
TT009 said:
An AFCI breaker is about $35 vs. $6

and 300.4(E) says you cant run conduit 1 1/2" below the roof deck...

In a commercial application the roof deck has ribs which you could run conduit in. You could put 10' of conduit in the rib couple another 10' of conduit toogether and so on... You could run this as long as you wanted.

Now you have to strap the conduit every 10' on the braces of the roof. You either need to move your lift/ ladder every time, where as before you could have coupled hundreds of feet together from one location.
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did't you need to move the lift or ladder to install straps for securing??
 
We studied the 08 in preparation for the usual change in NE law but it failed to pass. I would prefer at this late stage in the game we just skip adoption of the 08 & move on to the 11. Adding another few hundred (?)changes won't really matter that much. I already have my license.
 
We have had the 2008 in full enforcement since October. There are still issues coming up from those unfamilier with the changes despite the fact that all electrical contractors have taken code update seminars.
 
Florida adopted 08 in October.
We deal with about 6 local building departments and each is interpreting the change to SER differently.
Some still allow 2/0 copper SER to feed a 200A MLO panel.
Others say upsize to 4/0 copper per 60 degree column.
Very frustrating - not sure how to bid residential feeders.
I've decided to avoid SER and install thhn in conduit instead.
I wish Florida would enforce a single interpetation of the code.
 
ptonsparky said:
Look at 358.30.

I believe some will say that support is given by those trusses and if you don't have a box etc, you don't need a strap.
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Thanks for the Code reference, I believe that section 358.30 (as most of the XXX.30 sections) indicates that the wiring method is required to secured and supported .

358.30(A) states Securely Fastened.

So I''m not sure if your statement is implying that a raceway inserted between the the joist (V-hanger) and the roofing (corrugate panels) does or does not require a strap (so to say) every 10 feet or so. If you a stating that a raceway so installed and resting on the joist conforms with the requirements of section 358.30, I do not agree. I think shoving the raceway into the groove satisfies the requirement and I further believe that you need to move the ladder every 10 feet ( min) and install a pipe support ( to secure the raceway). I also believe that this is required (in general) for all of the wiring methods in Chapter 3.
 
Charlie,
It is my opinion that 350.30(B) applies to the installation. That section only requires a strap within 3' of the termination points.
(B) Supports. Horizontal runs of EMT supported by openings through framing members at intervals not greater than 3 m (10 ft) and securely fastened within 900 mm (3 ft) of termination points shall be permitted.
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The V in the joist is an opening through a framing member.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Charlie,
It is my opinion that 350.30(B) applies to the installation. That section only requires a strap within 3' of the termination points.

The V in the joist is an opening through a framing member.
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Don thanks for pointing out the language in (B) I can not disagree with you after reading through it again, and again, and again, and
 
TT009 said:
AFCI's are a very costly change, along with the the change with running pipe in the roof of a commercial application. Running pipe 1 1/2" down from a roof is a huge labor expense...before you could run 300' of pipe from one location, now you have to move every 10'.
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If you were running the conduit on top of the bar joists, you were not running it through an opening in a framing member and the code required straps every 10'. For conduits on top of the joist 358.30(A) applies, for conduits run within the joist itself 350.30(B) applies.
 
TT009 said:
An AFCI breaker is about $35 vs. $6

and 300.4(E) says you cant run conduit 1 1/2" below the roof deck...

In a commercial application the roof deck has ribs which you could run conduit in. You could put 10' of conduit in the rib couple another 10' of conduit together and so on... You could run this as long as you wanted.

Now you have to strap the conduit every 10' on the braces of the roof. You either need to move your lift/ ladder every time, where as before you could have coupled hundreds of feet together from one location.
Click to expand...

Ok I understand the gripe yet you are obviously someone who has never had branch feeders hit from flat roofing screws.. I have installed many runs like this but over my Many Many years of work I have had my feeders hit by roofing self tapping screws. I never would have believed it until it happened to me personally numerous times. I would have to agree that this code change is one for the better not the worse until they change roofing installs it is a change to protect your wiring from 6-8 in self tapping screws drilled in randomly. I have to concur with the new code change as being in the right direction. Not subject to physical damage rings a bell in my old head.
 
TT009 said:
AFCI's are a very costly change, along with the the change with running pipe in the roof of a commercial application. Running pipe 1 1/2" down from a roof is a huge labor expense...before you could run 300' of pipe from one location, now you have to move every 10'.
Click to expand...

IMO this is one of the worst code changes in the 2008 NEC. There hundreds of thousands of buildings that are wired with conduit mounted to the underside of the roof decking in commercial buildings. They have been wired this way for decades. Yes, there is a minuscule likelihood that a roof decking screw could penetrate a conduit at some point but the substantiation for this new rule is very weak. With one "stroke of the pen" the NEC has completely rewritten 50 years of standard operating procedure for these types of installations. If you're one of the unfortunate contractors who missed this code change you could be in for a rude awakening at inspection time.
 
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