200A 3Phase Panel (Can I???)

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finster1

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New Jersey
Hi Guys,
Need to pick a brain or two. I have a store I am wiring and the requirements are two close for comfort. No room for future expansion. In the basement of this particular tanning store they have an abandoned 3ph disconnect 200a which is still live to the service mast. Iwould like to use this for a new 200a 3ph service. The disco goes to a gutter and lots of old meters and junk still hanging off it. If I gut this stuff can I put a new meter pan and use the existing main disco for my service and just install a main lug panel. This is in NJ and the service provider is JCP&L ....My fustration is I'd like to wire the 3 of the beds the way they were designed for three phase service instead of rewiring them for single phase.I cant see any reason wire I cant use the old disco it has 2/0 CU feeders and the tap wires in the tray are also 2/0. And being this would only serve the one store from here in I want to think I can just supply a main lug panel instead of a main breaker panel.Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jimmy P
NJ Licensed Electrical Contractor
 
finster1 said:
Hi Guys,
Need to pick a brain or two. I have a store I am wiring and the requirements are two close for comfort. No room for future expansion. In the basement of this particular tanning store they have an abandoned 3ph disconnect 200a which is still live to the service mast. Iwould like to use this for a new 200a 3ph service. The disco goes to a gutter and lots of old meters and junk still hanging off it. If I gut this stuff can I put a new meter pan and use the existing main disco for my service and just install a main lug panel. This is in NJ and the service provider is JCP&L ....My fustration is I'd like to wire the 3 of the beds the way they were designed for three phase service instead of rewiring them for single phase.I cant see any reason wire I cant use the old disco it has 2/0 CU feeders and the tap wires in the tray are also 2/0. And being this would only serve the one store from here in I want to think I can just supply a main lug panel instead of a main breaker panel.Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jimmy P
NJ Licensed Electrical Contractor
Click to expand...
If the disconnect is as old as you describe the conductors may only have a
60C rating. If so the ampacity is 145 amps. If the conductor has a 75C rating the conductors has a 175 amp rating. You would have to install 175 amps fuses. What have you calculate the load to be? What is the voltage?
 
Jimmy, make sure you know whether this is a high-leg Delta service, or even corner-grounded (and not a Y service).

Is there a neutral? (there should be one at least to the main.) Will any loads require one?

Check the transformers if they're visible. If you know what you're looking at, you can tell a great deal.

Do a line-to-line and line to ground voltage check, preferably (in my opinion, anyway) with a solenoid-type tester.
 
Feeder Is Essex E14656m

Feeder Is Essex E14656m

The feeders in the conduit to the service mast are 90degree essex wire by the prefix on it E14656m so I will assume I am still good for the 200a Service.The wires in the cable tray have an older cloth jacket so I will just assume out they are gonna have to go. Today I stripped all the old services abandoned by the landlords contractor but my main concern is will I be able to use the 200a square d disco and a main lug panel instead of a main breaker panel for my installation. The landlord has installed a whole new panel board with a 600a service for the other stores. There were tags on all the old equipment to remove so I did and want this disconnect being it has nothing else on it to serve my main lug three phase panel. If this wasn't for my convenience as well as my customers I would just go out and make him pay for a new main breaker panel, but I already have a main lug panel which was a fifth of the cost.All phases are 120 to ground and it is a 208v 3ph service. The customer I am working for is also a friend and his start up cash is being stretched so I am trying to help him without compromising safety. I will add new feeder wires from the main breaker to the panelboard. It would be almost impossible to run a new service to the basement the way the sidewalk repairs were made, so I feel I really need to use the existing disco, but I'm looking for a little experience to tell me this would receive a blessing before I pursue this route.All the stores currently are served by three other services, a 600,and two other 100 3ph panels so I feel this is a perfect out. The store I am in has a 300A Single phase pan and another 3ph subpanel 100a but these tanning beds all need 3PH 230V so rather than use large feeders and marginal calculations I'd rather install this additional panel if it would be possible.
 
finster1,

You are only allowed to have one service to a building, or other structure served.

230.2 but there are exceptions. You have 1ph and 3ph already, it would be

up to the local EI to grant permission in my opinion.
 
tanning salons

tanning salons

stalllingselectric said:
You Stated u need 230v? and your on a wye system? Might be pricey to boost it :-?
Click to expand...
They all need 230v but we boost the voltage in these stores with twin buck boost transformers 1,2 or 3kva depending upon the demand
 
tanning salon

tanning salon

benaround said:
finster1,

You are only allowed to have one service to a building, or other structure served.

230.2 but there are exceptions. You have 1ph and 3ph already, it would be

up to the local EI to grant permission in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I work on many of these tanning salons and all have more than one service because the original panel is never large enough unless the building was designed for the specific purpose of being a tanning salon. I hope in this case your not right but I appreciate your answer. It appears that we have 4 separate services supplying seven stores.
 
remote ocpd

remote ocpd

jim dungar said:
The main OCPD for a panelboard may be remote from the panel.
Click to expand...
DO I have to remove the cable gutter and replace with conduit so it is understood that this is only to serve my panel
 
thanks

thanks

LarryFine said:
Jimmy, make sure you know whether this is a high-leg Delta service, or even corner-grounded (and not a Y service).

Is there a neutral? (there should be one at least to the main.) Will any loads require one?

Check the transformers if they're visible. If you know what you're looking at, you can tell a great deal.

Do a line-to-line and line to ground voltage check, preferably (in my opinion, anyway) with a solenoid-type tester.
Click to expand...
Its 208 line to line and 120v line to ground each phase. No neutral, just ground. None of the loads will require a neutral off of this panel.
 
finster1 said:
The feeders in the conduit to the service mast are 90degree essex wire by the prefix on it E14656m so I will assume I am still good for the 200a Service.
Click to expand...

90 degree conductors can only be used according to their 75 degree rating which for #2/0 is only 175 amps.
 
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