200A Generac ATS Help!!

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Arclightingelectris

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California
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Electrician
I’ve installed many 22kw Generac generators but I never ran Into this. I noticed I don’t have a main breaker at the panel so I can easily shut it off and install my wires. I think we have only sub lugs. 1&3 are one phase and 2&4 are the other phase. My question is: how would you wire this with 4 wires??

I was thinking of just using 3 hole polaris connectors? What would be the way you wire it to the ATS.
 
Can you show us any pics, or at least a detailed drawing, so we can see what you have, and what you want to do?
 
Okay, now I get it. The two-wires per pole situation is not really relevant to the discussion, unfortunately for what you want to do, which is to intercept the conductors between the meter load terminals and the panel's input terminals.

To modify an existing, approved-as-built assembly to add a transfer switch is verboten. It has been discussed here many times.
 
I’ve never seen this specific meter center; it looks to be designed for the 6-handle rule. Do you have multiple sub-panels fed from this? Are you trying to backup everything connected to this, or one specific sub-panel?

If you want to backup one load off this, you would route that breaker to the utility side of the ATS.

If you’re trying to backup the entire load of this service, I think the easiest thing to do is replace that meter center with a meter combo that has a single MCB; route from that to the transfer switch, then install a loadcenter on the customer side of the ATS and feed all six of those existing breakers.

The other option is to open the meter side, and replace the wire that feeds those sub-feed lugs to be routed to your ATS, then from there back to your sub-feed lugs. You will need load -side lugs rated for multiple conductors to route back to the sub-feed lugs.

The existing service certainly isn’t ideal for connecting standby power.


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brantmacga said:
The other option is to open the meter side, and replace the wire that feeds those sub-feed lugs to be routed to your ATS, then from there back to your sub-feed lugs. You will need load -side lugs rated for multiple conductors to route back to the sub-feed lugs.
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That's what I described as not allowable.
 
LarryFine said:
Okay, now I get it. The two-wires per pole situation is not really relevant to the discussion, unfortunately for what you want to do, which is to modify an existing, approved-as-built assembly to add a transfer switch, which is verboten. It has been discussed here many times.
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This problem (interfacing a generator to a meter/main panel) is why people in this position really have only three solutions.
1. Replace the meter/main panel with separate meter socket and main panel (not cheap), or
2. Abandon the features of ATS and go the manual route using an add-on interlock for the main breaker and generator breaker.
Unfortunately in addition to being manual, that route may not allow you to deliver the full generator output, since the size of a branch breaker for that panel may limit you. And some AHJs will not recognize a manual interlock which is not supplied by the original panel manufacturer.
3. Some utilities may offer a specialized meter which contains a transfer switch and also provides the generator connection points. There are definitely meter replacements or interposing sockets that provide for supply side PV connection. This link describes a manual TS that installs between meter and original socket. I have not seen any automatics, but they may exist.
 
Arclightingelectris said:
I’ve installed many 22kw Generac generators but I never ran Into this. I noticed I don’t have a main breaker at the panel so I can easily shut it off and install my wires. I think we have only sub lugs. 1&3 are one phase and 2&4 are the other phase. My question is: how would you wire this with 4 wires??

I was thinking of just using 3 hole polaris connectors? What would be the way you wire it to the ATS.
Click to expand...

Those 4 wires are part of the panel from the factory, so you can't really re route them. They go from the sealed utility compartment to (usually the) main breaker but here go to a set of subfeed lugs. That is really odd.

Could the OP replace the subfeed lug with a HOM2200 main breaker (or would that be considered modifying the panel), then reuse the subfeed lug to feed a the ATS which then feeds a new panel and relocate the existing circuits to the subpanel?

Or could the HOM2200 be installed in the panel and use its terminals to feed the ATS? (sqd calls the hom2200 a main breaker so I don't know if it could be used in this fashion)
 
Todd0x1 said:
Those 4 wires are part of the panel from the factory, so you can't really re route them. They go from the sealed utility compartment to (usually the) main breaker but here go to a set of subfeed lugs. That is really odd.
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I guess they found it more convenient than a pair of actual lugs to supply the bus strips.

Could the OP replace the subfeed lug with a HOM2200 main breaker (or would that be considered modifying the panel), then reuse the subfeed lug to feed a the ATS which then feeds a new panel and relocate the existing circuits to the subpanel?
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Still a modification. However, I suppose you could use such a breaker to effectively turn the meter/panel into a meter/main, and relocate the entire load to a sub-panel, as you're describing here:

Or could the HOM2200 be installed in the panel and use its terminals to feed the ATS? (sqd calls the hom2200 a main breaker so I don't know if it could be used in this fashion)
Click to expand...
In such a case, I would use a meter/main instead of a meter/panel, and save the meter/panel for an installation where it's the only viable option.

A four-body main breaker like this is normally phased A-A-B-B, while here, you'd be using it A-B-A-B, like the subfeed blocks are being used.

As long as the load terminals are not joined, there should be no issue. You still would need a compliant way to join the four terminals into two.
 
I found this of interest, as it effectively shows what I meant about the phasing, that the BB version locks it into being used as A-B-A-B only:

 
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