2011 States,,,,,,,,,,,,
- Thread starter dicklaxt
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Might not be where you first heard it but you were given code section that mentions the rule.
404.2(C) is exactly what you are looking for.
(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
404.2(C) is exactly what you are looking for.
(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Exception: The grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted to be omitted from the switch enclosure where either of the following conditions in (1) or (2) apply:
(1)Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads enter the box through a raceway. The raceway shall have sufficient cross-sectional area to accommodate the extension of the grounded circuit conductor of the lighting circuit to the switch location whether or not the conductors in the raceway are required to be increased in size to comply with 310.15(B)(3)(a).
(2)Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting loads enter the box through a framing cavity that is open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on one side.
Informational Note: The provision for a (future) grounded conductor is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting control devices.
Informational Note: The provision for a (future) grounded conductor is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting control devices.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
This rule was put into the code because the listing standard permitted occupancy sensors and other electronic type switches to use the EGC as the grounded conductor for the electronics in the switch. The standard limited this current to 0.5mA, but with a number of switches connected to the EGC, it can be a shock hazard for someone who opens the EGC. Just like an open neutral, the load end of the open EGC will have 120 volts on it. The current is limited so that the shock itself should not cause any serious injury, but the reaction to the shock may cause a fall or something else that could result in a more serious injury.
UL said they would not change the standard to prohibit using the grounding conductor as the grounded conductor unless the NEC had a rule that required the grounded conductor to be in the switch boxes.
As far as it being done, it is done in areas that have adopted the 2011 code and have code enforcement.
And many of the remote control switches/dimmers won't work with CFL or LED lights (even if they say they are dimmable) unless you get the version that has a neutral wire. I think 2 wire switches can't leak adequate current through the ballasts to work right. The switches like this that don't need a neutral need to be redesigned to work with CFL/LED or just go away. But they won't sell many if neutrals are required and most people don't have a neutral in a switch box.
I've been struggling with this for 10 years. I had to add neutrals to most of my light switches using X-10 devices or make sure there is at least one regular light bulb in the circuit (that works fine if there are multiple fixtures, but mixing CFL and incandescent in a 2 light enclosed fixture won't work -- the CFL gets too hot and fails in a few months). But when the regular bulb burns out, they work wacky again...
I love this rule. Please run neutrals to all your switch boxes. The additional wire isn't going to break the bank. This will also allow a receptacle to be added from a switch box. Maybe it keeps all the electricians employed, but it shouldn't have to be a major undertaking to add a receptacle or fan timer to a bathroom that has a light switch or a bunch of frustration to add a remote control dimmer.
I've been struggling with this for 10 years. I had to add neutrals to most of my light switches using X-10 devices or make sure there is at least one regular light bulb in the circuit (that works fine if there are multiple fixtures, but mixing CFL and incandescent in a 2 light enclosed fixture won't work -- the CFL gets too hot and fails in a few months). But when the regular bulb burns out, they work wacky again...
I love this rule. Please run neutrals to all your switch boxes. The additional wire isn't going to break the bank. This will also allow a receptacle to be added from a switch box. Maybe it keeps all the electricians employed, but it shouldn't have to be a major undertaking to add a receptacle or fan timer to a bathroom that has a light switch or a bunch of frustration to add a remote control dimmer.
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