2014 code for dishwasher and disposal

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euclid43

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Hi,
After viewing the code changes for 2014, I noticed the GFCI requirement for kitchen sink receptacles within radius of 6 ft. First thing I thought was how can it be possible to have kitchen on AFCI and GFCI; furthermore, this probably ousts the multiwire neutral sharing we sometimes do. Can someone share with me their plans for making an "functioning" and economical and aesthetic installation, thanks.
 
I'm sure the manufacturers will 'save' us with their soon-to-be-announced AFCI/GFCI breakers. This announcement coming on the heels of their pushing through the new requirement.

And, of course, the price tag on these new 'miracle' breakers will be $195.
 
You can use AFCI breakers designed for MWBC and then put in a GFCI at each individual receptacle that needs it, or you can break the MWBC and go to seperate neutrals before the first GFCI receptacle.
Either way the receptacles that need it get GFCI protection.

Trying to do the same thing in the other order (every receptacle with its own AFCI device) would not meet code because the wiring itself would not be protected.
Fortunately the GFCI requirement does not care about protecting building wiring

Tapatalk...
 
euclid43 said:
Hi,
After viewing the code changes for 2014, I noticed the GFCI requirement for kitchen sink receptacles within radius of 6 ft. First thing I thought was how can it be possible to have kitchen on AFCI and GFCI; furthermore, this probably ousts the multiwire neutral sharing we sometimes do. Can someone share with me their plans for making an "functioning" and economical and aesthetic installation, thanks.
Click to expand...

Are AFCI's expanded in 2014 to kitchens? Whats wrong with an AFCI breaker and a GFCI receptacle? I know some people think a circuit with GFCI and AFCI protection would be a universe destroying paradox much like attaching a piece of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropping the two......
 
electrofelon said:
Are AFCI's expanded in 2014 to kitchens? Whats wrong with an AFCI breaker and a GFCI receptacle? I know some people think a circuit with GFCI and AFCI protection would be a universe destroying paradox much like attaching a piece of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropping the two......
Click to expand...

So where you gonna put the GFCI?
 
electrofelon said:
Are AFCI's expanded in 2014 to kitchens? Whats wrong with an AFCI breaker and a GFCI receptacle? I know some people think a circuit with GFCI and AFCI protection would be a universe destroying paradox much like attaching a piece of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropping the two......
Click to expand...
Or dividing by zero...
http://tinyurl.com/qb6bqc8
 
I could have sworn they made a AFCI/ GFCI combo breaker. Low and behold i went out in the ware house and sure enough i found one marked AFCI/GFCI combination, 15 amp breaker. So i did some research and it seems that it is no longer made or offered. This is an older breaker however. Probably did not work so they stopped making them.
 
Daja7 said:
I could have sworn they made a AFCI/ GFCI combo breaker. Low and behold i went out in the ware house and sure enough i found one marked AFCI/GFCI combination, 15 amp breaker. So i did some research and it seems that it is no longer made or offered. This is an older breaker however. Probably did not work so they stopped making them.
Click to expand...
Some AFCI breakers include a GFCI component, but at the 30ma level rather than the 6ma threshold currently required to be listed as a residential GFCI.
Not sure if what you describe was just one of those with poor labeling or really 6ma.
 
GoldDigger said:
Some AFCI breakers include a GFCI component, but at the 30ma level rather than the 6ma threshold currently required to be listed as a residential GFCI.
Not sure if what you describe was just one of those with poor labeling or really 6ma.
Click to expand...

It was definitly labeled GFCI AFCI combo. don't know about the rating. I threw it out with the other old breakers i had accumulated over the years. not sure why i kept them.
 
euclid43 said:
Hi,
After viewing the code changes for 2014, I noticed the GFCI requirement for kitchen sink receptacles within radius of 6 ft. First thing I thought was how can it be possible to have kitchen on AFCI and GFCI; furthermore, this probably ousts the multiwire neutral sharing we sometimes do. Can someone share with me their plans for making an "functioning" and economical and aesthetic installation, thanks.
Click to expand...

Arc fault breaker feeding a DEAD FRONT GFCI.
 
euclid43 said:
Hi,
After viewing the code changes for 2014, I noticed the GFCI requirement for kitchen sink receptacles within radius of 6 ft. First thing I thought was how can it be possible to have kitchen on AFCI and GFCI; furthermore, this probably ousts the multiwire neutral sharing we sometimes do. Can someone share with me their plans for making an "functioning" and economical and aesthetic installation, thanks.
Click to expand...

Arc fault breaker feeding a DEAD FRONT GFCI at the panel then feeding the dish/ garbage disposal recep.
 
Ohms law said:
Arc fault breaker feeding a DEAD FRONT GFCI at the panel then feeding the dish/ garbage disposal recep.
Click to expand...
Do they make 120/240 3-wire dead front GFCIs in the same way that they make two pole GFCI breakers, or would what you suggest not work if the kitchen circuits are going to be wired as part of an MWBC?
 
GoldDigger said:
Do they make 120/240 3-wire dead front GFCIs in the same way that they make two pole GFCI breakers, or would what you suggest not work if the kitchen circuits are going to be wired as part of an MWBC?
Click to expand...

What electricians do around my area is that we run a 20 amp circuit for the dishwasher/ disposal to a switch then make one half of the recep switch and the other half always hot. I don't know if there is a two pole DEAD FRONT GFCI, this is just what we do.
 
GoldDigger said:
Do they make 120/240 3-wire dead front GFCIs in the same way that they make two pole GFCI breakers, or would what you suggest not work if the kitchen circuits are going to be wired as part of an MWBC?
Click to expand...

One other thing, MWBC are not common around here for line-to-neutral loads do to the fact of AFCI's and the requirements that are required when you extend or modify a circuit.
 
electrofelon said:
Did I miss part of the thread title that must have said what is the most expensive and convoluted way to wire this ;)? Hardwire the dish then it won't need a friend or gfci. Don't use a mwbc
Click to expand...
Even if you hardwire the dishwasher it still needs to be GFCI under the 2014 NEC.
 
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