2017 NEC gfci commercial

[dm9289]

Attached is a picture of a long counter top in a coffee store. Far left not pictured is a small sink about 15ft away. There are 2 -240v cooking units cord and plug connected should they be GFCI protected?
Via 210.8B I’m thinking not required?
Via 422.5 I’m also thinking no?

Other opinions or input appreciated

 

[TheEngineerEEE]

If that area is considered a Kitchen, the receptacle needs to be GFCI. Check 210.8 (A) (6). If it is not considered a kitchen, then no per 210.8 (A) (7) because your sink is 15 ft away.

 

[LarryFine]

If that area is considered a Kitchen, the receptacle needs to be GFCI. Check 210.8 (A) (6). If it is not considered a kitchen, then no per 210.8 (A) (7) because your sink is 15 ft away.

With two ovens and a sink, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a kitchen.

 

[dm9289]

If that area is considered a Kitchen, the receptacle needs to be GFCI. Check 210.8 (A) (6). If it is not considered a kitchen, then no per 210.8 (A) (7) because your sink is 15 ft away.

The kitchen definition is the question in my mind its a part of a coffee bar. I guess a kitchen is a place with a sink and permanent provisions for cooking. I really dont know if those 2 plug in units are considered permanent provisions

 

[dm9289]

With two ovens and a sink, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a kitchen.

Yeah im sort of hung up on that

 

[rc/retired]

What code are you under!?

 

[Fred B]

NFPA70 2023 - 100 Definition
Kitchen.
An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

Sounds like you have a kitchen.



2023 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 50 amperes or less, and all receptacles supplied by three-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 100 amperes or less, installed in the following locations shall be provided with GFCI protection:
210.8(B)(2) Kitchen


2017 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
210.8(B)(2) Kitchens

Essentially the same.

 

[dm9289]

What code are you under!?

2017

 

[dm9289]

NFPA70 2023 - 100 Definition
Kitchen.
An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

Sounds like you have a kitchen.



2023 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 50 amperes or less, and all receptacles supplied by three-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 100 amperes or less, installed in the following locations shall be provided with GFCI protection:
210.8(B)(2) Kitchen


2017 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
210.8(B)(2) Kitchens

Essentially the same.

Permanent provisions for cooking?????
I see where you coming from

 

[dm9289]

With two ovens and a sink, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a kitchen.

The cooking units just seem more like the provisions for a hot plate to me from the 2017 handbook.

 

[dm9289]

NFPA70 2023 - 100 Definition
Kitchen.
An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

Sounds like you have a kitchen.



2023 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 50 amperes or less, and all receptacles supplied by three-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 100 amperes or less, installed in the following locations shall be provided with GFCI protection:
210.8(B)(2) Kitchen


2017 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
210.8(B)(2) Kitchens

Essentially the same.

 

[dm9289]

If that area is considered a Kitchen, the receptacle needs to be GFCI. Check 210.8 (A) (6). If it is not considered a kitchen, then no per 210.8 (A) (7) because your sink is 15 ft away.

Not sure the provisions of 210.8A would apply in this case because it’s not residential

 

[dm9289]

NFPA70 2023 - 100 Definition
Kitchen.
An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

Sounds like you have a kitchen.



2023 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 50 amperes or less, and all receptacles supplied by three-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 100 amperes or less, installed in the following locations shall be provided with GFCI protection:
210.8(B)(2) Kitchen


2017 NFPA70
210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
210.8(B)(2) Kitchens

Essentially the same.

Just to be clear it’s the small sandwich heaters with the plastic bag over them

 

[Fred B]

The cooking units just seem more like the provisions for a hot plate to me from the 2017 handbook.

never seen a 240V hot plate

 

[Fred B]

hot plate to me from the 2017 handbook.

Handbook narrative is not the code and just an interpretation of code not enforceable.
What is AHJ and bldg dept calling the space? Is there any other cooking equipment in space?
Once space is qualified as a "Kitchen" the code says All Receptacles up 50A at 150V to G or less in that space require GFCI protection.

 

[LarryFine]

Just to be clear it’s the small sandwich heaters with the plastic bag over them

I was looking at the two appliances under the counter.

 

[rc/retired]

2017

I don't think GFCI protection is required, then.

Ron

 

[dm9289]

never seen a 240V hot plate

Yep would be one heck of a hot plate I guess lol

 

[dm9289]

Handbook narrative is not the code and just an interpretation of code not enforceable.
What is AHJ and bldg dept calling the space? Is there any other cooking equipment in space?
Once space is qualified as a "Kitchen" the code says All Receptacles up 50A at 150V to G or less in that space require GFCI protection.

The approved prints have no GFCI just the situation got me thinking.
Approved via design review by AHJ.
I don’t know why I keep overthinking

 

[dm9289]

I was looking at the two appliances under the counter.

Those are little fridges for coffee creamers. Sorry