2020 Islands & Peninsulas

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is another one to drive you crazy. This entire section is new

210.52(C)(2) Island and Peninsular Countertops and Work Surfaces.

Receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(2)(a) and (C)(2)(b). (a)At least one receptacle outlet shall be provided for the first 0.84 m(9 ft), or fraction thereof, of the countertop or work surface. A receptacle outlet shall be provided for every additional 1.7 m(18 ft), or fraction thereof, of the countertop or work surface.
(b)At least one receptacle outlet shall be located within 600 mm (2 ft) of the outer end of a peninsular countertop or work surface. Additional required receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be located as determined by the installer, designer, or building owner. The location of the receptacle outlets shall be in accordance with 210.52(C)(3).
A peninsular countertop shall be measured from the connected perpendicular wall.

 

[jimport]

Why are they basing the receptacle spacing on square footage?. We just got the linear stuff straightened out not that long ago so we didn't have to use the depth dimension in the spacing. It would have been easier to use the logic of receptacles for showroom windows since most counters are 2 foot deep.

Stuff like this makes it in, but a valid proposal doesn't because it wasn't formatted correctly according to the style guide. Shaking head. If feel like Gibbs needs to head slap someone.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Here is another one to drive you crazy. This entire section is new

Going to see if I got this...
From 2017 we measure from the back of the wall.
so now if the peninsula is shorter than 3’, we get an outlet.
If its over 3’, we get another one up to a ~9’ peninsula.

PLUS the one at the end.

Yes?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Going to see if I got this...
From 2017 we measure from the back of the wall.
so now if the peninsula is shorter than 3’, we get an outlet.
If its over 3’, we get another one up to a ~9’ peninsula.

PLUS the one at the end.

Yes?

That is 9 sq. ft not 9 linear feet

 

[Hv&Lv]

That is 9 sq. ft not 9 linear feet

Yeah, but the counter being somewhere around 34” divides out to about 9’ with the first part added

the first 9’sq is about 3’ long, unless it’s a weird counter setup. Then the 18 sq ft added makes somewhere around 9’.

like was stated above, it was easier to just measure lineal ft
now if you have a “standard” countertop, it’s one measurement, if you have a bigger countertop or a stepped countertop, it’s another measurenment.


the homeowner has a peninsula built, you figure and add receptacles. The GC or the cabinet guy talks them into a bigger slab.
crap, just failed inspection...

homeowner is now mad because you just added to your quote.

 

[Andrew t]

Yeah, but the counter being somewhere around 34” divides out to about 9’ with the first part added

the first 9’sq is about 3’ long, unless it’s a weird counter setup. Then the 18 sq ft added makes somewhere around 9’.

like was stated above, it was easier to just measure lineal ft
now if you have a “standard” countertop, it’s one measurement, if you have a bigger countertop or a stepped countertop, it’s another measurenment.


the homeowner has a peninsula built, you figure and add receptacles. The GC or the cabinet guy talks them into a bigger slab.
crap, just failed inspection...

homeowner is now mad because you just added to your quote.

I was at a new house today with an Peninsula counter that was 15’ long and 71/2’ wide that why Sq ft is needed

 

[Jerramundi]

Here is another one to drive you crazy. This entire section is new

Crazy indeed. The gen. rcpt. 12 ft linear measurement made sense to me because of your typical cord being 6ft. I just assumed the same logic applied to kitchen counter top appliance cords being roughly 2 ft. I wonder if this has anything to do with appliance cords reaching rcpt's on deeper counter top spaces. I can't think of any other reason for it.

My Mike Holt 2020 Changes To The NEC has been sitting on my desk for over a month. I really need to get on that.

You seasoned guys are making me look bad, haha. I thought you guys refused to update your knowledge from like 1990 onward, lol. At least that's how most guys around here are. They still say to cut off the ground wire on a fixture and that you don't need it.

 

[Coppersmith]

I was at a new house today with an Peninsula counter that was 15’ long and 7 1/2’ wide

Sounds like a bowling alley.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was at a new house today with an Peninsula counter that was 15’ long and 71/2’ wide that why Sq ft is needed

Well that is arguable for sure. I bet maybe one receptacle will get used, maybe 2..... I realize the nec is trying to cover for many situations- I personally feel it is overkill for an island...If Home owner wants more than no problem. We will be installing our first pop up receptacles because the customer wants them. Been in business for 45 years and never had to install one and I have worked on many multi-million dollar homes.

 

[infinity]

Well that is arguable for sure. I bet maybe one receptacle will get used, maybe 2..... I realize the nec is trying to cover for many situations- I personally feel it is overkill for an island...If Home owner wants more than no problem. We will be installing our first pop up receptacles because the customer wants them. Been in business for 45 years and never had to install one and I have worked on many multi-million dollar homes.

I agree another instance of the NEC becoming a design manual. The existing code was sufficient as a minimum standard. I mean really we need to do a calcuation to determine how many receptacles we need on an island when most of them will never be used? I have one on my 7' island when I need to plug something in I go to that end and use the receptacle.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The substantiation for that change is that some kitchen designs no longer have wall counters, but yet the same amount of electric appliances will still be used.

 

[Jerramundi]

The substantiation for that change is that some kitchen designs no longer have wall counters, but yet the same amount of electric appliances will still be used.

A "kitchen" WITHOUT wall adjacent countertops? NONE? I struggle to even contemplate such a reality, haha.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

A "kitchen" WITHOUT wall adjacent countertops? NONE? I struggle to even contemplate such a reality, haha.

From the substantiation for PI 1649:

Some kitchens these days are designed using modern architecture and exposed warehouse looks. Some kitchens have only islands with no walls in the kitchen area, just large islands with significant countertop spaces. To apply the single receptacle outlet rule to these kitchen designs would be insufficient. ...

 

[stevenje]

Sounds like a bowling alley.

Don't forget to GFCI protect the pin setter!

 

[infinity]

From the substantiation for PI 1649:

They could have simply stated when there are no walls or no other counter top receptacles then you would be required to use the new dumb calculation method.

 

[Dale lee]

Going to see if I got this...
From 2017 we measure from the back of the wall.
so now if the peninsula is shorter than 3’, we get an outlet.
If its over 3’, we get another one up to a ~9’ peninsula.

PLUS the one at the end.

Yes?

 

[Dale lee]

I don’t think so, looks like if it’s 9 ft or shorter your only required one outlet to be located within 2 ft of the outer end as that one would qualify for both

 

[Dale lee]

I don’t think so, looks like if it’s 9 ft or shorter your only required one outlet to be located within 2 ft of the outer end as that one would qualify for both

sorry I missed the square footage part...

 

[Dale lee]

Here is another one to drive you crazy. This entire section is new

Here is another one to drive you crazy. This entire section is new

I was at a new house today with an Peninsula counter that was 15’ long and 71/2’ wide that why Sq ft is needed

could they not still have said 2ft from the outer end(s) and every 6 ft so you can still just whip out a tape measure... or am I now gonna fail because I put it at 2ft and the inspector is going to say 600 mm is only about 1.7 ft your not within code

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Why are they basing the receptacle spacing on square footage?. We just got the linear stuff straightened out not that long ago so we didn't have to use the depth dimension in the spacing. It would have been easier to use the logic of receptacles for showroom windows since most counters are 2 foot deep.

Stuff like this makes it in, but a valid proposal doesn't because it wasn't formatted correctly according to the style guide. Shaking head. If feel like Gibbs needs to head slap someone.

They felt that a spacing requirement was too restrictive but still wanted to have enough receptacles on the island or peninsula. They felt this was a more workable solution with the only location specification that one of the peninsula receptacles be within 2' from the outside end.

The change was driven by the open kitchen style that is often found where old industrial or warehouse buildings are coverted to residential usage. In some of there conversions, there are no wall cabinets.

The part of this change that I do not like, is that under the 2020 code, even the wall cabinets can have under counter receptacles. I see that a serious decrease in the safety of the installation.