210.11 c 4 exception 2017

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865resi

865resi

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Tennessee
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Electrician
My inspector said they are being trained that a receptacle on the back of the dwelling is not readily accessible. He said the receptacle outside the garage door is readily accessible. Have you guys ran into this? I've been installing all outdoor receptacles on this circuit without any issues. Thanks
 
The receptacle is supposed to be readily accessible from the yard, not from a doorway.

All outdoor receptacles can be on the same circuit. I vote "wrong" on both of these. (n)
 
Are you speaking of the rule about a GFCI being readily accessible?
The code requires a receptacle at the front and back of a residence at grade. Unless you have to use ladders, tools, move obstacles, etc. to get to the GFCI, then it is readily accessible.
Most times you don't put the GFCI receptacle outside anyway, you put it inside and feed from it. That or use GFCI breaker.

If you just speaking of a receptacle, there is no rule that it has to be readily accessible.

ETA: I meant to say unless it's one of the front/back required ones.
Our inspectors will allow a receptacle on a deck or porch to count if it's not too high off grade.
 
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He inspects my work all the time. He said, over the phone, this is what they are being trained. I've done it this way several years. Thanks
 
Little Bill said:
Are you speaking of the rule about a GFCI being readily accessible?
The code requires a receptacle at the front and back of a residence at grade. Unless you have to use ladders, tools, move obstacles, etc. to get to the GFCI, then it is readily accessible.
Most times you don't put the GFCI receptacle outside anyway, you put it inside and feed from it. That or use GFCI breaker.

If you just speaking of a receptacle, there is no rule that it has to be readily accessible.
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Yes, the GFCI is in the garage. He said the receptacle in front, very close to garage is readily accessible, but the receptacle at the back of the dwelling is not. I think he meant to reset the GFCI you have to walk back to the garage. Thanks
 
865resi said:
Yes, the GFCI is in the garage. He said the receptacle in front, very close to garage is readily accessible, but the receptacle at the back of the dwelling is not. I think he meant to reset the GFCI you have to walk back to the garage. Thanks
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Well, if the GFCI in the garage is readily acceptable, then it can be re-set without interference. Doesn't matter for any downstream of it.
 
The real issue is that the circuit required by 210.11(C)(4) is not permitted to supply receptacles other than the ones required by 210.52(G) in each garage bay. The exception is poorly worded as it reads outside receptacles, but I expect your AHJ is reading as it was intended...that circuit can only supply outside receptacles on the garage itself and not on the house.
 
Little Bill said:
Well, if the GFCI in the garage is readily acceptable, then it can be re-set without interference. Doesn't matter for any downstream of it.
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I agree and would question what readily accessible has to do with any receptacle that's installed on the back of the house.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The real issue is that the circuit required by 210.11(C)(4) is not permitted to supply receptacles other than the ones required by 210.52(G) in each garage bay. The exception is poorly worded as it reads outside receptacles, but I expect your AHJ is reading as it was intended...that circuit can only supply outside receptacles on the garage itself and not on the house.
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You may be correct about how it was intended to be. It may be poorly written, but the exception reads outdoor receptacles and does not give a location for these. He said that's what they are being taught. I've done it this way for years now and it was satisfactory. Thanks
 
Inspector using wrong terminology? Definition given in Article 100 does not support this implied violation on its face. Most violations I see are with failure to use WR rated receptacle on exterior of building, and failure to provide "In Use" covers.
865resi said:
My inspector said they are being trained that a receptacle on the back of the dwelling is not readily accessible. He said the receptacle outside the garage door is readily accessible. Have you guys ran into this? I've been installing all outdoor receptacles on this circuit without any issues. Thanks
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Now AFA if you are suggesting that you are using the garage circuit for all outside receptacles even not on the garage or related to the garage that is a violation but not necessarily of accessibility. Garage circuit can only be used related to garage when code indicates "no other receptacles". A receptacle located on house (not related to garage space) being on the garage circuit would be a violation. Code requires a minimum of a receptacle on front and rear of a dwelling unit. Intent was to provide a means to prevent (or discourage) homeowner or tenant from needing to run extension cords out a window or door to provide power outside.
Personally I would use a GFCI receptacle as the outside receptacle if for nothing else but convenience; if something plugged in trips the GFCI, going to the outside receptacle wher it's plugged into is better than have to go back inside to reset. Additionally if you use a receptacle inside for the GFCI the most likely will be in a location that gets into AFCI requirements that by having a seperate outside only circuit you avoid, outdoor tools have bigger chance of nuisance tripping on AFCI.
 
865resi said:
You may be correct about how it was intended to be. It may be poorly written, but the exception reads outdoor receptacles and does not give a location for these. He said that's what they are being taught. I've done it this way for years now and it was satisfactory. Thanks
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In the 2014, it was very clear that the circuit that supplies the receptacle required in each bay of a garage could not supply a receptacle outside of the garage. The 2014 code did not require a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the garage bay receptacles. That was added in the 2017. The exception was intended replace language that was removed from 210.52(G).
 
865resi said:
You may be correct about how it was intended to be. It may be poorly written, but the exception reads outdoor receptacles and does not give a location for these. He said that's what they are being taught. I've done it this way for years now and it was satisfactory. Thanks
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The exception seems pretty clear to me...Outdoor receptacle outlets can be supplied by the garage branch circuit.

Looking through the Public Inputs for that section, there were several suggestions that the exception either be removed, or the exception be modified to say outdoor receptacle outlets ON the garage, or in the VICINITY of the garage.

However, none of those revisions were accepted for the 2020 NEC.
 
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