210.12(b)

[hightenor572]

I am an inspector in Missouri.

In the 2008 NEC 210.12(B), what has been the discussion for the (or similar rooms or areas) been?

We are trying to come up with the intent of the code so the inspectors in our area can call it the same way.

This is in direct relation to Laundry circuit (rooms). I know the exclution of Kitchen, bathroom, Garages etc...those with normal GFCI protection of the receptacles, but Mike includes the Laundry. I understand its not included in the items listed in the NEC. Also what about lights in those areas?

How have you, and others been calling it?

 

[augie47]

TN is just adopting '08 and they made any additional AFCI protection optional, so I am of no help with your question, but wanted to welcome a new inspector to the Forum.

 

[raider1]

As for the laundry room, since it is not specifically on the list of rooms that require AFCI protection I would not require it to be. That goes for lights and receptacles unless the light circuit happens to also feed lights in an area that does require AFCI protection.

My personal opinion is that if the CMP intended the laundry room to be AFCI protected they would have listed it in 210.12(B).

Chris

 

[charlie b]

WA didn't buy into the whole house AFCI either, so all I can offer is my opinion. I would say that a laundry room is not "similar to" any of the rooms on the list, because it is a place you go to, then you do a task, and then you leave. You don't place portable floor lamps there, you don't put an HDTV or sterio system there, and you don't sit there to read a book. The only items in that area that require power are the washer and dryer, and sometimes an iron. The first two items aren't likely to generate an arc fault. The third item is either in use or unplugged, so it isn't likely to generate an arc fault with nobody nearby who could see the problem and unplug the cord.

 

[romeo]

210.12(b)

I once mentioned that I wish similar rooms or areas was removed,because it adds confusion to the section.

I only require AFCI protection for the areas specifically listed in the section.

 

[raider1]

I once mentioned that I wish similar rooms or areas was removed,because it adds confusion to the section.

I only require AFCI protection for the areas specifically listed in the section.

I feel that the reason that the similar rooms or areas was included, was to help with rooms such as a "study" which is not specifically on the list but is similar to a den or library.

Chris

 

[hightenor572]

I am in agreement with all of you so far. This is what we get into when they add vague wording to the code. Here is something another inspector wrote to me reqarding this matter and I see his point also although the laundry circuit is sometimes required to be GFCI protected.

"Unfortunately I had this on my mind a lot last night and I kept going back to the (similar rooms) part of the code.
I looked at each room and the one common denominator was that each room they list on the exceptions has to have
GFCI protection. The laundry room is not required to have GFCI protection and that is why I based my decision on
requiring the laundry room to be AFCI protected."

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am in agreement with all of you so far. This is what we get into when they add vague wording to the code. Here is something another inspector wrote to me reqarding this matter and I see his point also although the laundry circuit is sometimes required to be GFCI protected.

"Unfortunately I had this on my mind a lot last night and I kept going back to the (similar rooms) part of the code.
I looked at each room and the one common denominator was that each room they list on the exceptions has to have
GFCI protection. The laundry room is not required to have GFCI protection and that is why I based my decision on
requiring the laundry room to be AFCI protected."

I partially agree with your co- worker , however the lights in a bathroom and kitchen are not GFCI protected and are not required to be on AFCI.

 

[celtic]

You don't place portable floor lamps there, you don't put an HDTV or sterio system there, and you don't sit there to read a book. The only items in that area that require power are the washer and dryer, and sometimes an iron. The first two items aren't likely to generate an arc fault. The third item is either in use or unplugged, so it isn't likely to generate an arc fault with nobody nearby who could see the problem and unplug the cord.

What about when somebody drives a nail - to hang a picture - through the cable?


I do know certain areas seem to have been "omitted" for requiring AFCI protection ~ I don't understand the "Why Not?"
I was under the impression the AFCI was to protect the entire circuit, not just the outlets.

I'm not debating your logic - NJ has yet to accept any version of 210.12(B) - just want some understanding for the inevitable acceptance of 210.12(B) here.

 

[iwire]

In my own opinion the CMP should never have made a list, either require AFCI protection for all circuits not required to be GFCI or none at all.

 

[romeo]

210.129(b)

210.129(b)

In my own opinion the CMP should never have made a list, either require AFCI protection for all circuits not required to be GFCI or none at all.

I agree and that is what I tell EC. If it is not gfci protected afci is required

 

[COTInspector]

Last year we had Mark Ode and John Minick in for an eight hour code update class, and someone asked what about the lighting in the garage, kitchen and bathroom areas.
Mr. Minick (who is on Chapter 2 CMP) replied that leaving thoes areas out was an oversight by the CMP. If you ask for a formal interpretation, NFPA will recommend lighting in thoes areas to be AFCI protected, but it cannot be required.
Look for this oversight to be corrected in the 2011 NEC.

COTInspector
Electrical Inspector
Electrical Instructor
Plans Examiner

 

[ZZZ]

I agree and that is what I tell EC. If it is not gfci protected afci is required

I agree, there is enough abiguity in the code already.