210.4(B)3 Ph, 4 W, 120/208V panelboard - shared neutral branch circuits

Isaiah

Senior Member
My understanding is you cannot use 3-single phase, 20A branch CBs with a 'shared' neutral unless all three CB's are ganged together at the panelboard – per NEC 210.4(B)....Is this a true statement?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Well it wouldn't be possible to install a 3 pole CB unless the three phases are next to one another but I gather that you're referencing single pole CB's. Yes you are correct, the single poles with a handle-tie will end up just like a 3 pole CB.
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Well it wouldn't be possible to install a 3 pole CB unless the three phases are next to one another but I gather that you're referencing single pole CB's. Yes you are correct, the single poles with a handle-tie will end up just like a 3 pole CB.
Thanks Infinity. Looks like this particular company ignored 210.4(B). :happyno:
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
When was the install? That disgusting code change has only been around since 2008. During the one hundred years prior to that you could spread your MWBC out.
 

ptonsparky

Senior Member
When was the install? That disgusting code change has only been around since 2008. During the one hundred years prior to that you could spread your MWBC out.
Spread out and used a lot. I feel sorry for the young guys that work on a restaurant remodel we did years ago. All MWBC, no handle ties, and some were spread out not even close to one another in the panel.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
When was the install? That disgusting code change has only been around since 2008. During the one hundred years prior to that you could spread your MWBC out.
Spread out and used a lot. I feel sorry for the young guys that work on a restaurant remodel we did years ago. All MWBC, no handle ties, and some were spread out not even close to one another in the panel.​


I agree with both of you guys.

Roger​
 

kwired

Electron manager
Spread out and used a lot. I feel sorry for the young guys that work on a restaurant remodel we did years ago. All MWBC, no handle ties, and some were spread out not even close to one another in the panel.

Before the handle tie rule applied to everything, I generally still kept them grouped together, but when adding things to an existing panel sometimes things got spread around, especially if there was a high leg in the panel and you had to avoid that as well.
 

ptonsparky

Senior Member
Before the handle tie rule applied to everything, I generally still kept them grouped together, but when adding things to an existing panel sometimes things got spread around, especially if there was a high leg in the panel and you had to avoid that as well.
We grouped the MWBC with tape at each access point but those that have had no experience with them will be lost.
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
I always put a piece of tape around each boat but I never worried about grouping at the breaker because I might be pulling spares or I might want to group circuits in a certain order other than A,B,C.
 

kwired

Electron manager
My understanding is you cannot use 3-single phase, 20A branch CBs with a 'shared' neutral unless all three CB's are ganged together at the panelboard – per NEC 210.4(B)....Is this a true statement?
I guess nothing says they must be ganged together, but since handle ties are required it probably is easiest to find ties for breakers that are adjacent to one another ;)
 
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