210.63
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Re: 210.63
2002 N.E.C. Article 210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment Outlet.
A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means.
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If the HVAC equipment were in four different locations then "yes" you would need four receptacles. If the equipment were grouped together then you only need to have one receptacle within 25 feet of each HVAC item.
2002 N.E.C. Article 210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment Outlet.
A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means.
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If the HVAC equipment were in four different locations then "yes" you would need four receptacles. If the equipment were grouped together then you only need to have one receptacle within 25 feet of each HVAC item.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: 210.63
I red-tag about 75% of the houses I inspect on artlicle 210.63
I red-tag about 75% of the houses I inspect on artlicle 210.63
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: 210.63
In my mom's place in FL, they "solved" the issue by putting a pull chain lamp holder with a combo receptical in as the attic light. The A/C unit is right next to the attic hatchway.
Pretty cheesy setup...as anyone plugging in a tool would quickly rip the plastic box off its nails and be left with a lampholder hanging from a piece of Romex...like happened to me :-(
I ripped all that sleazoid crap out and put in (several) proper attic lights, (with a real switch) and servicing recepticals in several places around the attic.
In my mom's place in FL, they "solved" the issue by putting a pull chain lamp holder with a combo receptical in as the attic light. The A/C unit is right next to the attic hatchway.
Pretty cheesy setup...as anyone plugging in a tool would quickly rip the plastic box off its nails and be left with a lampholder hanging from a piece of Romex...like happened to me :-(
I ripped all that sleazoid crap out and put in (several) proper attic lights, (with a real switch) and servicing recepticals in several places around the attic.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 210.63
Wish
That is the first time I have heard the inspector called - 90.4. I have plenty to say about 90.4 but will leave it till another time.
Pierre
Wish
That is the first time I have heard the inspector called - 90.4. I have plenty to say about 90.4 but will leave it till another time.
Pierre
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 210.63
Tonyi
See 210.70 (3)
[ September 23, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Tonyi
If that is the only light for the attic it would be a red tag.
See 210.70 (3)
[ September 23, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: 210.63
I remain unconvinced the pull chain is technically a code violation. Code here doesn't specifically call for a "snap" switch, just a "switch". The mechanism in the lamp holder certainly fits the description of a "general-use" switch.
However, I think its an *incredibly* cheap/sleazy/lazy/(add your own adjectives here<g>) thing to do, and if I were an inspector, I'd probably give the guy who did it a thorough rectal exam on the rest of the job ;->
In terms of the other serious code violations that were present in my mom's place, this possible one is so minor as to be insignificant. I've been fixing a lot more genuinely dangerous and way off spec stuff. Someone down here in Palm Beach county must have gotten some pretty *FAT* envelopes full of cash to pass these places (this is in a development with ~850 houses). I called the county inspectors office and asked WTF?!?!? and was met with a cold shoulder of denial "the house was inspected" they said, end of story, absolutely zero interest in what I'd uncovered in this place. I guess anything built in 1989 is ancient history to them.
I remain unconvinced the pull chain is technically a code violation. Code here doesn't specifically call for a "snap" switch, just a "switch". The mechanism in the lamp holder certainly fits the description of a "general-use" switch.
However, I think its an *incredibly* cheap/sleazy/lazy/(add your own adjectives here<g>) thing to do, and if I were an inspector, I'd probably give the guy who did it a thorough rectal exam on the rest of the job ;->
In terms of the other serious code violations that were present in my mom's place, this possible one is so minor as to be insignificant. I've been fixing a lot more genuinely dangerous and way off spec stuff. Someone down here in Palm Beach county must have gotten some pretty *FAT* envelopes full of cash to pass these places (this is in a development with ~850 houses). I called the county inspectors office and asked WTF?!?!? and was met with a cold shoulder of denial "the house was inspected" they said, end of story, absolutely zero interest in what I'd uncovered in this place. I guess anything built in 1989 is ancient history to them.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 210.63
Tonyi:
So it would be hard to control a light with a string strung through the attic or crawl space wouldn't it? Although I have seen this very setup. :roll:
Tonyi:
Your right It does say that it may contain a switch or be controled by a wall switch. guess I read too fast. but if a pull chain was used the equipment would have to be located very close to the entry as it does say "At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces . The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing."
So it would be hard to control a light with a string strung through the attic or crawl space wouldn't it? Although I have seen this very setup. :roll:
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: 210.63
In this particular case, the A/C is on one side of the hatchway and the lamp holder was on the other side with the chain hanging down pretty close to the hatch cover.
Even so, you'd be groping in the dark a bit to find it if you didn't know where it was.
The hatch is inside a closet in one of the bedrooms for maximum inconvenience<g>. One of my strokes of brilliance was to scab one attic light (where the original lampholder was located) onto the closet light that was positioned nearby. Not a big deal power wise to burn the attic light when the closet light is on, but its a MAJOR convenience for anyone going up into the attic. When they lift the hatch, there'll already be some light there and THEN they'll see the snap switch I put up by the hatchway that turns on the rest of the attic lights that'll light the place up like Times Square. The attic light systems are now on different branches (it sucks to be caught in the total dark doing a spiderman imitation across trusses!), and the attic service outlets I scattered around are spread across four different branches. It REALLY sucks when you plug in too many tools and worklights on the one wimpy 15A branch that ALSO was running the standard attic light, trip the breaker, and are left in the total dark...undoubtedly stuck VERY FAR from the hatchway with no flashlight<g>. Been there, done that...ain't gonna have someone else do it in this place!
In this particular case, the A/C is on one side of the hatchway and the lamp holder was on the other side with the chain hanging down pretty close to the hatch cover.
Even so, you'd be groping in the dark a bit to find it if you didn't know where it was.
The hatch is inside a closet in one of the bedrooms for maximum inconvenience<g>. One of my strokes of brilliance was to scab one attic light (where the original lampholder was located) onto the closet light that was positioned nearby. Not a big deal power wise to burn the attic light when the closet light is on, but its a MAJOR convenience for anyone going up into the attic. When they lift the hatch, there'll already be some light there and THEN they'll see the snap switch I put up by the hatchway that turns on the rest of the attic lights that'll light the place up like Times Square. The attic light systems are now on different branches (it sucks to be caught in the total dark doing a spiderman imitation across trusses!), and the attic service outlets I scattered around are spread across four different branches. It REALLY sucks when you plug in too many tools and worklights on the one wimpy 15A branch that ALSO was running the standard attic light, trip the breaker, and are left in the total dark...undoubtedly stuck VERY FAR from the hatchway with no flashlight<g>. Been there, done that...ain't gonna have someone else do it in this place!
Re: 210.63
Wish, the first paragraph of my response came directly from the code book (as you probably know). The second paragraph is based on the fact that article 210.63 stays ("A" 125 volt receptacle). This implises one receptacle is necessary for maintenance of HVAC equipment, not one for each piece of equipment. Code also states that ("the" receptacle is to be within 25 feet of the equipment). If you have one receptacle with 25 feet of the equipment then you comply with exact wording of the code. Your providing a safe power supply at the site of the equipment. The whole point to having a receptacle is for Safety, and this is mentioned in the NEC handbood as the purpose of this receptacle.
We provide designs all over the country for commercial installations. I always provide only one receptacle if the HVAC is within 25 feet. This is savings to the owner.
Again I emphasize the fact that the code does not say one receptacle for each piece of equipment.
I hope this helps.
Wish, the first paragraph of my response came directly from the code book (as you probably know). The second paragraph is based on the fact that article 210.63 stays ("A" 125 volt receptacle). This implises one receptacle is necessary for maintenance of HVAC equipment, not one for each piece of equipment. Code also states that ("the" receptacle is to be within 25 feet of the equipment). If you have one receptacle with 25 feet of the equipment then you comply with exact wording of the code. Your providing a safe power supply at the site of the equipment. The whole point to having a receptacle is for Safety, and this is mentioned in the NEC handbood as the purpose of this receptacle.
We provide designs all over the country for commercial installations. I always provide only one receptacle if the HVAC is within 25 feet. This is savings to the owner.
Again I emphasize the fact that the code does not say one receptacle for each piece of equipment.
I hope this helps.
Re: 210.63
Wish,
It sounds to me that the inspector is requiring the seperate receptacles to comply with 210.25.
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210.25 Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit. Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two-family or multifamily dwelling shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit.
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If you had a house panel you could use only one receptacle as long as it were within 25' of all equipment as the others have mentioned, but without the house panel, the 4 seperate receptacles may be the only way to go.
Jim
[ September 25, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: jimb ]
Wish,
It sounds to me that the inspector is requiring the seperate receptacles to comply with 210.25.
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210.25 Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit. Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two-family or multifamily dwelling shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit.
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If you had a house panel you could use only one receptacle as long as it were within 25' of all equipment as the others have mentioned, but without the house panel, the 4 seperate receptacles may be the only way to go.
Jim
[ September 25, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: jimb ]
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: 210.63
Re: attic light
We have a builder here that puts no lights in attic by telling the buyers that the attic can not be used for storage.
And the AHJ is letting them do it.
I checked it sounds like they can do this.
Mike P.
Re: attic light
We have a builder here that puts no lights in attic by telling the buyers that the attic can not be used for storage.
And the AHJ is letting them do it.
I checked it sounds like they can do this.
Mike P.
Re: 210.63
MikeP,
210.70(A)(3), for dwellings and 210.70(C) for other than dwellings require a light if the attic / crawl space has equipment requiring service.
Article 100 - EQUIPMENT . A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaries (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
Seems than covers a bunch of items which may or may not be in attic / crawl spaces.
MikeP,
210.70(A)(3), for dwellings and 210.70(C) for other than dwellings require a light if the attic / crawl space has equipment requiring service.
Article 100 - EQUIPMENT . A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaries (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
Seems than covers a bunch of items which may or may not be in attic / crawl spaces.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 210.63
If the house has truss frame construction, unless otherwised designed, truss frame constructed spaces in the attic are not designed to carry a load to support storage items and the builder is correct. That is a building code and not an electricians issue.
Pierre
If the house has truss frame construction, unless otherwised designed, truss frame constructed spaces in the attic are not designed to carry a load to support storage items and the builder is correct. That is a building code and not an electricians issue.
Pierre
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: 210.63
Pierre
It is my understanding that trusses are designed to carry an additional dead load of 10 lbs. per sf.
Why could you not put light boxes up there? Holiday decorations?
If wires (home runs) are run throught the attic it woulb nice to have a light there.
IMHO there are a number of reasons someone would be in the attic to service some type of equipment.
Is this equipment limited to electrical equipment?
Mike P.
Pierre
It is my understanding that trusses are designed to carry an additional dead load of 10 lbs. per sf.
Why could you not put light boxes up there? Holiday decorations?
If wires (home runs) are run throught the attic it woulb nice to have a light there.
IMHO there are a number of reasons someone would be in the attic to service some type of equipment.
Is this equipment limited to electrical equipment?
Mike P.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: 210.63
GWZ2
Thank you for seeing the obvious. I never thought of it that way.
GWZ2
Thank you for seeing the obvious. I never thought of it that way.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 210.63
GW
The scuttle hole may be there for the same reason as a spare tire in the car, an emergency .
Mike P.
I do not have my copy of the building code here, and I am not as well read in the building code as the NEC, but I remember reading the ICC and seeing that truss frame construction is not designed for load in attic spaces. I will check it out at my office monday.
Pierre
[ September 27, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
GW
The scuttle hole may be there for the same reason as a spare tire in the car, an emergency
.Mike P.
I do not have my copy of the building code here, and I am not as well read in the building code as the NEC, but I remember reading the ICC and seeing that truss frame construction is not designed for load in attic spaces. I will check it out at my office monday.
Pierre
[ September 27, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
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