210.70(A)(3)?

[jxofaltrds]

Did a home inspection today (Sunday) and there are no lights for the attic spaces. The builder is informing buyers not to use the attic for storage.

Does this allow them to skirt 210.70(A)(3)? I do not think so.

I would like your feedback.

Mike P.

 

[steve66]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

I think I would base my decision on how suitable the attic is for storage. Are there stairs going to the attic, or is a ladder required for access? Does the attic have a floor, or is it just insulation and joists? If both of the above are yes, I think I would require lighting outlets. If both are no, I would not require them.

For my house the answer would be no to both, and my house doesn't have any lights in the attic.

STeve

 

[earlydean]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

We had a formal interpretation from the State Building Inspector on this question. He said that if there is a scuttle hole (and scuttle holes are required for attics with 30 inches of headroom) then it will be used for storage, and therefore it must have a light.
Earl

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

I don't like that interpretation at all. Not only is it presumptous, it is not complete. If they are going to "assume" the attic is storage space, are they requiring that the bottom chord of the trusses is engineered to satisfy the live and dead load requirements of a floor? I agree with the light when you have equipment in the attic, but anything beyond that is beyond the scope of the code.

 

[earlydean]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

I agree with you Ryan. But, after an official interp, it becomes code in our state. Not only does it not take into account the loads on the trusses or joists, but having a keyless open lamp fixture in some of these attics can be dangerous. You can easily bump it with your head if it isn't installed in the right location.

Earl

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

EarlyDean: You speak of something that I am not familiar with...the official interpretation of the state official. We don't have anything like this in our state, which could be good or bad, really. What about due procces? Does this representitive have a board of appeals? I'm trying to be argumentitive, simply curious. Thanks in advance.

 

[Guest]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Originally posted by earlydean:
<snip> You can easily bump it with your head if it isn't installed in the right location.

Earl

Maybe somebody can put there finger on it but isn't there a requirement for lighting protection in the attic (like cages for keyless, etc.)? I would be a double whammy to take out a keyless with your head-- it could be shockingly painful.

../Wayne

[ September 08, 2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[earlydean]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Ryan,
Yes, there is a board of appeals. It goes like this:

1) local BO makes a ruling
2) local contractor appeals to local board of appeals
3) local contractor appeals to state board of appeals

OR

1) local contractor or local BO requests a formal interpretation of code from Office of State Inspector.
2) technicians research the issue and submit report to the State Building Inspector, who makes his decision and publishes it.
3) locals can appeal to the state board of appeals.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Ryan

The bottom cord can handle another 10lbs per sf.

Regardless we all know that some one will use it as storage. A box of holiday lights would not exceed the load. Now it is storage.

Now forget about the storage. What about servicing equipement?

Is a fart fan equipment? What if I installed an attic fan? A whole fan? (I meant a whole house fan).

I believe was that the intent was to put a light there if a person could move around in the attic.

Mike P. IMHO

[ September 08, 2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: jxofaltrds ]

 

[william runkle]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Getting this thread back to an attic as storage space. a mention was asked about a keyless bulb hit by the head and breaking? Well what about that keyless bulb and combustible material? We have guidelines to follow in closets but what about the attic? Imagine someone storing their newspapers in the attic and right next to the keyless and someone forgot to turn the switch off.

 

[Guest]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Maybe required lighting-- or any attic lighting should have a shroud that would protect the bulb against breakage AND the shroud would be sized to maintain a minimum distance from stored combustibles. The shroud could be mandated to be of a size to make it physically impossible to place combustibles too near it-- and it would prevent breakage.

Even if it's not code required, it would be safe.

../Wayne

 

[iceman2610]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Fluroecents with plastic sleves would be a great solution for all concerned. They burn cool and if the bulb were to get busted - the glass from the breakage would be safely contained.

 

[skd76]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

I see no mention of a floor in the discussion so far. We would not consider it storage space unless there is a floor. If there is equipment, then not only would a light & receptacle be required, but a 24 inch walkway to that equipment. A keyless would have to afford protection (cage) for the lamp.

One unresolved side issue for our staff is whether a small covered area that is installed to protect cables within 6 feet of the opening ['99 336-6(d) & 333-12(a)] should be considered a floor and trigger the lighting requirement. Anybody have a policy on this?

 

[Guest]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

Originally posted by skd76:
<snip>One unresolved side issue for our staff is whether a small covered area that is installed to protect cables within 6 feet of the opening ['99 336-6(d) & 333-12(a)] should be considered a floor and trigger the lighting requirement. Anybody have a policy on this?

My understanding is that the six foot protection does not have to be covered protection-- it can be running board protection. Please correct me if I'm wrong. References or links would be helpful if you refute my post. Thanks!

../Wayne C.

 

[steve66]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

JXO:

For equipment, 210.70A3 only requires lighting for equipment requiring servicing.. The handbook goes on to list air-handling units, cooling and heating equipment, water pumps, and sump pumps. I don't they intended fans to be considered as equipment that requires servicing.

On another note, wouldn't 410.5 and 410.6 require a guard over the lampholder for a fixture in an attic?


Steve

 

[ceb]

Re: 210.70(A)(3)?

What about 320.23(a) 2002nec if wire is run within 7' of floor in attic it is to be protected by strips. but where space is not accesable by PERMANENT STAIRS OR LADDERS protection is required within 6' of nearest edge of scuttle hole. I would say no to a light if it has no permanent ladder or flooring and their is no serviceable equip.