210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

[George Stolz]

Before I write this out, I'd like some input. I believe as a minimum standard, the term "lighting outlet" in 210.70 should be replaced with "luminaire". My reasoning is that on a completed installation, a resident of a home should not be required to call an electrician to get the "lighting outlet" supplied to emit light.

An electrician would not be needed for a switched receptacle, or a luminaire.

And, I'm thinking by the wording of 210.70(A)(3) mentioning a "lighting outlet containing a switch" indicates to me that perhaps they had their terms confused? A pull-chain is a lampholder containing a switch. I don't know of a method of putting a single-pole switch and a luminaire in the same box...

So, instant poll: Is lighting outlet correct, or Luminaire?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

I like the term "lighting outlet" simply because I do not believe it is within the scope or purpose of the NEC to require lighting in any occupancy. How does installing a light source in a room provide safeguarding of persons or property using electricity? This is a life safety and building code issue.

Also, by changing the term, one could assume that only luminaires are permitted to be installed and one would not be permitted to install an outlet that may be used at some other time for lighting.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

Originally posted by bphgravity:
This is a life safety and building code issue.

So, honest question: why is it required by NEC at all?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

What bothers me is we are required to install a lighting outlet but not the fixture.Nothing stops the EC from just blanking off all lighting outlets.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

One thing does: the inspector. I'll betcha most don't realize this, and would recommend changing it if they did. I doubt I'd ever pass a house if I blanked all the lighting outlets.

It's another "hiding in plain sight" definition.

 

[charlie]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

So, instant poll: Is lighting outlet correct, or Luminaire?

In my opinion, "lighting outlet."

 

[jimwalker]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

A luminaire is a light fixture complete with lamp and hooked up,a lighting outlet is a box with supply lines for a luminaire but is not a fixture

 

[pierre]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

I say keep it at lighting outlet.
As far as having an actual luminaire during the final inspection is more or less up to the building department during their final walk through.


From Bryan - this is pertinent as well:

"Also, by changing the term, one could assume that only luminaires are permitted to be installed and one would not be permitted to install an outlet that may be used at some other time for lighting."

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

Originally posted by Bryan, repeated by Pierre:
Also, by changing the term, one could assume that only luminaires are permitted to be installed and one would not be permitted to install an outlet that may be used at some other time for lighting.

At the risk of exposing my ignorance, may I have an example?

Another question: What is the building code requirements for lighting in dwellings?

 

[jwelectric]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

What affect if any would this have on ceiling fans? Would this require that a fixture be mounted on all ceiling fans as the fan is wired with a lighting circuit?

Maybe that would call for another proposal as support for ceiling fans is in 422.18 ARTICLE 422 Appliances

My vote lighting oulet

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

Hmm. Luminaire 1, Lighting Outlet 3. (Unless I count Jim in the "Luminaire" column, as he seems to feel the same as I do.)

Originally posted by Bryan, repeated by Pierre:
Also, by changing the term, one could assume that only luminaires are permitted to be installed and one would not be permitted to install an outlet that may be used at some other time for lighting.

I am being honest when I say I look at this statement and don't understand it. I think it's the "some other time for lighting" part that's throwing me off.

Would this require that a fixture be mounted on all ceiling fans...

If the outlet in question is installed to comply with 210.70, I'd take it for granted that someone will expect a light-kit on the ceiling fan to generate light. IMO.

 

[physis]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

For some reason the idea's bugging me, but I don't what it is.

I can't think of a good reason to not require the lighting fixture. They're lighting fixtures George. There's no such thing as a luminaire.

Bryan's arguement doesn't go anywhere because the lighting outlet's already required.

The fan is interesting. I read article 100 and nothing says I can't put a fan with no light in it in the lighting outlet. Except that a lot of inspectors know the intentions of not only the CMP's but also installing electricians, even if they're wrong.

Logically I can't think of a reason to disagree with the idea. But I keep imagining I'm gonna get hit in the back of the head with a 2x4.

 

[physis]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

You know, looking at the definition of lighting outlet in Article 100 it seems pretty clear that the code only cares about a box with wires in it.

It specifically mentions the boxes intent. That's sucky language unless the whole idea is an empty box.

Maybe you could find one of those inspectors who know the intent behind all the codes and ask him why they did that.

[ April 15, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

Maybe the best approach to my unpopular idea ( ) is to change the lighting outlet definition to include the finished product: an outlet with a lumin--er-- lighting fixture or lampholder connected to it.

 

[physis]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

I don't see that it doesn't have merit, except for I don't know what purpose saying "luminaire" has, I just think there "must" be something bad that would happen if we listened to you and did this.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

I only prefer the term "luminaire" because it is one word, and because they seem to be steamrolling it into play anyway.

I'd be happier with "widget" if it were properly defined, because it has six letters and "luminaire" has nine.

 

[physis]

Re: 210.70: Lighting Outlet or Luminaire?

I'm still working on the first million or two words, I'm geting worn out from it.

It does seem sensless to say "ok, make sure you put some boxes with wires already in them in some different places". When I'm back from lunch I'll check it out!

I think it's a very interesting point.