220/3 & 230/3 - Common?

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Keri_WW

Keri_WW

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I'm working on the design for a restaurant where the owner has spec'ed equipment from Superior Food Machinery. I've done design on numerous restaurants before, but this equipment is calling for 220V / 3 phase and 230V / 3 phase. I've never seen these setups before! Incoming service is 480Y/277 and I'm stepping down to 120/240.

I'm planning on contacting the manufacturer to see if I can get either 480 or 240 for the equipment. However, I am wondering how common 3 phase 220 and 230 voltages are? How would I go about achieving these voltages for each piece of equipment?

Thanks!
Keri :D:D
 
You're stepping down from 480/277 3phase to 120/240 3phase? 120/240 3phase is not that common.

Check to see if the equipment is also rated for 208volts, which is a far more common 3phase voltage.
 
480sparky said:
You're stepping down from 480/277 3phase to 120/240 3phase? 120/240 3phase is not that common.

Check to see if the equipment is also rated for 208volts, which is a far more common 3phase voltage.
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Incoming voltage is 480. This is for the a/c units and a few of the larger kitchen pieces. I was also thinking abuot using step-down transformers to go to 120/240 single phase for receptacles and the smaller equipment. Once I get a full equipment list I will know whether I can switch to 208 3 phase instead of 240 single.

The 220/3 and 230/3 phase voltages are throwing me off because I have never seen or used them before.
 
The US standard for nominal supply voltage is 240V 3-phase. A common US utilization voltage for motor driven equipment, and some appliances, is 230V. 220V is not a normal voltage in the US (and has not been for more than 40 years).

You need to do some more checking.

But, I would think a 240V 3PH 3W panel for equipment and a 208Y/120 3PH 4W for receptacles and other 120V loads, would be a reasonable design. Or go with the 208Y/120 and use buck-boost transformers as required for individual loads.
 
220/3 and 230/3 are almost always nominal ratings found on equipment that is intended to be _used_ on a nominal 240/3 supply.

The only thing to do is to contact the manufacturer and find out the actual _range_ of voltages that the equipment is specified to correctly use, and compare this with the actual _range_ of voltages that the POCO supplies.

-Jon
 
Exc. 1, welcome to the zoo! :smile:
exception1 said:
If you have a 480 volt source, install a transformer with a 480 volt wye primary and a delta secondary. End of problem. You will have 3 phase at 240 volts and single phase at 120 volts.
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Okay, a couple of exceptions :)D):

1. There's no advantage to a wye primary, since you should not connect it to the source neutral anyway; just get a Delta primary.

2. If you have a Delta secondary, only two of the lines will have 120v to the neutral; the third line will have an unusable ~208v.

3. In my opinion, a 120/240v 1ph panel would be a waste. There's very little equipment not rated for 208v, either 1ph or 3ph.

4. A 3-phase 208Y/120v panel will provide a more-balanced load, and the major equipment will be placed on 480v anyway.
 
3 phase 220 volt used to be common in Europe, but is less used now, some systems were 3 phase 4 wire 127/220 volt and others were 220 volt 3 phase 3 wire.

Any such systems still in use would now be described as 230 volt, though I doubt that the actual voltage has changed.
The European voltage suggests that the equipment may be designed for 50 cycles as used in Europe, and if so, a check should be made that it will work correctly on 60 cycles.

Induction motors generaly accept a slightly higher voltage if the frequency is also increased, therefore a 220 volt 50 cycle motor should be fine on a 240 volt 60 cycle supply.
Thermostaticly controlled heating elements generally work correctly over a fair voltage range, they will simply run for fewer minutes in each hour to achieve the desired result.
Non thermostatic heating elements may get hotter than desired.

A lot of equipment is designed to work over a range of +/- 10% in supplied voltage, and 240 volts is just within 220 volts +10%.
If however the nominal 240 volt supply was on the high side, at say 252 volts, that might be an issue.

A 240 volt 3 phase supply is readily obtained from 480 volt 3 phase by a suitable transformer. It would be best to select the tappings on this transformer to give a bit less than 240 volts, no great accuracy is required, but 240 volts +5% would be a bit unwise.
 
exception1 said:
If you have a 480 volt source, install a transformer with a 480 volt wye primary and a delta secondary. End of problem. You will have 3 phase at 240 volts and single phase at 120 volts.
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Not all 240V delta secondaries are 'center-tapped'. If you want 240/120 3PH 4W you need to be sure to order the transformer that way. And, as Larry said, a wye primary is very rare (unless you are a utility).
 
Sometimes mfrs use a "220V" rating because it can tolerate a +- 10% input voltage range, and 220 x .9 = 207V so it works on 208, and 220 x 1.1 = 242V so it works on 240 as well. But at those extremes, recognize that the 208 has almost NO tolerance for any additional voltage drop and at 240V, you are already close to the max, so if the line goes 240 + 10%, you are in trouble.
 
Well it seems like I am being flooded with these voltage types this month! The auto body shop I am working on needs a compressor rated at 240/3 or 480/3. I was planning on a simple 120/240 single phase system coming into the building, now I'm going to have to change that.

So all I need to do is note on my riser diagram that the utility provided pole mount transformer needs to be 240/120 3 phase 4-wire and I will be ok? It may be easier to go 480 and step-down as I need it....

What do you guys recommend?

Keri
:D:D
 
broadgage said:
3 phase 220 volt used to be common in Europe, but is less used now, some systems were 3 phase 4 wire 127/220 volt and others were 220 volt 3 phase 3 wire.

Any such systems still in use would now be described as 230 volt, though I doubt that the actual voltage has changed.
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It did change a little in France but not a whole alot but old 127/220 volts is about gone now due we pretty much harmozied with rest of mainland European area we are running 400/230 - 415/240 3 ph system now.

Merci,Marc

{ how I know this due this part I am in France due I have second home here }
 
Keri_WW said:
Well it seems like I am being flooded with these voltage types this month! The auto body shop I am working on needs a compressor rated at 240/3 or 480/3. I was planning on a simple 120/240 single phase system coming into the building, now I'm going to have to change that.

So all I need to do is note on my riser diagram that the utility provided pole mount transformer needs to be 240/120 3 phase 4-wire and I will be ok? It may be easier to go 480 and step-down as I need it....

What do you guys recommend?

Keri
:D:D
Click to expand...

The best thing is check with your POCO to see what type of three phase supply they will provide to your customer location and I know my POCO's both state of Wisconsin and Paris France do not provide delta anymore to new customer unless you get the POCO engineer blessing on that.

Merci,Marc
 
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