220 volts, 50 hz motor on 240 volts, 60 hz

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Saturn_Europa

Saturn_Europa

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Electrician Limited License NC, QMED Electrician
I work for a NGO as an electrician. My organization is based in the EU and works mainly in Africa. Most of Africa is on 220 volts 50 hertz.

We have a project in Haiti that is a mix of US electrical equipment and EU electrical equipment. The main issue is that our supply department is based in Europe and is sending European equipment. Most electronic equipment can take a wide variety of voltage and even the different frequency.

How about electric motors? I have read that 3 phase 400 volt 50 hertz motors can run on 480 volt 60 hertz because the volt/frequency ratio is the same. How about 220 volt 50 hertz single phase motors? I am assuming they can NOT run on 240 v 60 hertz?
 
One thing to keep in mind is that the motor speed will increase by 20% going from 50 to 60 Hz. You have to ensure the load will tolerate that.
The motor you describe will likely tolerate 460/60, but more details are required to know for certain.
 
retirede said:
One thing to keep in mind is that the motor speed will increase by 20% going from 50 to 60 Hz. You have to ensure the load will tolerate that.
The motor you describe will likely tolerate 460/60, but more details are required to know for certain.
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I would point out that many, but not all, IEC rated motors also have a NEMA rating as well. Sometimes they even come with two nameplates on the motor, one for IEC and one for NEMA. Your best bet for information will be to ask the motor manufacturer.
 
petersonra said:
I would point out that many, but not all, IEC rated motors also have a NEMA rating as well. Sometimes they even come with two nameplates on the motor, one for IEC and one for NEMA. Your best bet for information will be to ask the motor manufacturer.
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100% agree.

The very first motor I eyeballed in the shop just now (Becker vac pump) has a single nameplate with ratings for both 50 and 60 Hz.

1K8A0522_1_1.jpg

And as Retirede points out - note the diff in motor speeds for both line frequencies.

See if someone can get the info from the nameplates for you - or contact the motor manufacturer as Petersonra says.
 
petersonra said:
I would point out that many, but not all, IEC rated motors also have a NEMA rating as well. Sometimes they even come with two nameplates on the motor, one for IEC and one for NEMA. Your best bet for information will be to ask the motor manufacturer.
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He said the motor was for Africa. Would it likely be an IEC design? I have no idea.
 
Really application specific.

A rotary vane vacuum is a positive displacement device, so it would just change in capacity.

If it's a conveyor belt for an oven, then the process time would be 6/5th of 5/6th depending on which motor is used where and you're going to experience under-baking or over-baking unless you change gears or pulleys to match the speed.

An axial fan designed for 50Hz would probably not tolerate the overload caused by operating on 60Hz because the fan affinity law causes the load to increase drastically more than 6:5 ratio.
 
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LarryFine said:
Interesting that the current rises with voltage on 50 Hz, but lessens with voltage on 60 Hz. :unsure:
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Here's likely why;
The actual motor was designed as 380V Star / 220V Delta 50Hz, which is still the voltage used in some parts of the EU. But they know that other 50Hz countries use 400/230V and some others are at 415/240V, so they list the "range" that it will work at but with the changes that will create. However, when you use it at a higher voltage than it was designed for, the motor windings saturate and the motor consumes more energy as heat, so the current is higher at the higher voltages.

For 60Hz applications, the V/Hz ratio of the design, 380/50, is 7.6:1, which is almost exactly the same as 460V 60Hz, so the motor is fine with 460V 60Hz (albeit 20% faster RPM). But in our case if you connect it in Star (Wye), you will get a motor that is expecting 4.43V/Hz, which would make it want to see 265V @ 60Hz. But we don't have 265V available, we have 240V. So in our case, the motor will end up UNDER fluxed and that makes the motor produce less torque and draw less current.
 
What are standard voltages the utility can give you in Hati?
I wonder if they offer 416Y240 or 220Y127
 
Haiti is one of those unfortunate countries with a mixed bag. Mostly their single phase residential and tourist areas are 110/220 60 Hz because of US aid and investment, but some of their older 3 phase industrial (such as it is) areas are 220/380 50Hz because of it having been a French colony.
 
Jraef said:
Haiti is one of those unfortunate countries with a mixed bag. Mostly their single phase residential and tourist areas are 110/220 60 Hz because of US aid and investment, but some of their older 3 phase industrial (such as it is) areas are 220/380 50Hz because of it having been a French colony.
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Thank you, Sir!
 
ActionDave said:
It is interesting. I know that the old saw that higher voltage equals less current for inductive loads is only partially true but it would take someone with more science and engineering skills than me to explain why.
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It's the higher frequency that causes less current for inductive loads, for a given voltage. The impedance (Z) of an inductor with inductance (L) is given by Z = 2*pi*f*L*j, where f is the frequency and j is the imaginary number unit.

When Ohm's law is extended to apply for inductors, V = I*R becomes V = I*Z, where V, I, and Z are all phasors in the complex domain, instead of positive real numbers. Z being a pure imaginary number for an ideal inductor, means a 90 degree phase shift between V and I. Solve for I, and get I = V/Z, and substitute to get I=-V*j/(2*pi*f*L). The L is a property of the geometry of the inductor that remains constant. The frequency is what changes, when switching from 50 Hz to 60 Hz. Isolate V/f in the equation and get, I = -(V/f) * j/(2*pi*L).

This is why a motor can be built for both 480V/60Hz and 400V/50 Hz, with a rotation rate proportional to the frequency, because the Volts-per-Hertz ratio is the same. The current through the inductive components ends up being the same amplitude, when the Volts-to-Hertz ratio is the same. It still needs to be able to tolerate the higher voltage and higher rotation rate, which you can't guarantee if it was only built with the 50 Hz & 220V market in mind.
 
Jraef said:
Haiti is one of those unfortunate countries with a mixed bag. Mostly their single phase residential and tourist areas are 110/220 60 Hz because of US aid and investment, but some of their older 3 phase industrial (such as it is) areas are 220/380 50Hz because of it having been a French colony.
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Interesting, are you sure they have a 50 hz still? I suspect it might be all 60 hz
 
Jraef said:
Haiti is one of those unfortunate countries with a mixed bag. Mostly their single phase residential and tourist areas are 110/220 60 Hz because of US aid and investment, but some of their older 3 phase industrial (such as it is) areas are 220/380 50Hz because of it having been a French colony.
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Must have different generation facilities supplying each of those to have different frequency?
 
For anyone interested here is everyhting you ever wanted to know about about electricity in Haiti
www.bu.edu/ise/files/2018/03/FINAL-Haiti-Electricity-Report-March-2018.pdf

They pretty much have 9 grids that are not connected and lots of small village microgrids which seem interesting
1641758724757.png
I did not find anything to indicate they used 50 hz, I did see mention of 190Y110 as a three phase voltage, so they probably really are on '110'
Some of the primary feeders are indicated as 4.16/2.4 kV
 
kwired said:
Must have different generation facilities supplying each of those to have different frequency?
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Yes. Sometimes I feel that we (Americans) don't fully appreciate just how good we have it. I hear people here whine and complain because their power went down for a few hours in a storm. But also, you can move from California to New York and plug in your appliances without giving a thought as to whether or not they will work.
 
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