225.39 (D) Pool equipment panel installation
- Thread starter Mt61
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- Chapel Hill, NC
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- Retired Electrical Contractor
No, I think you mean 225.39(D). That section is for feeders or branch circuits that feed an separate structure. It appears you are talking about a sub panel on the same building
Sorry 225.39 (D) is correct. A pool is a separate structure. Conductors are run outside of the main structure to a panel sometimes mounted on the main structure. What I am trying to grasp is #12 thhn conductors run in 3/4” conduit to a 60 amp panel for a pool. Yes it works for the pump and a light, but as soon as you add the additional equipment (pool heater) everything is to small.
I appreciate your replies as it helps all of us!
225.39 (D) not less than 60 amperes
I appreciate your replies as it helps all of us!
225.39 (D) not less than 60 amperes
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
This code is specifically about the rating of the Disconnect Means, not the minimum feeder size.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
No, its 2-wire. The grounding conductor is not considered part of the circuit.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Are pool heaters common in Florida?
Exactly,
Required 60 amp disconnecting means in the main panel would require 60 amp rated conductors.
Or
30 amp minimum for the two-2 wire branch circuits.
So is a 20 amp breaker feeding #12 wire to a pool panel compliant?
Required 60 amp disconnecting means in the main panel would require 60 amp rated conductors.
Or
30 amp minimum for the two-2 wire branch circuits.
So is a 20 amp breaker feeding #12 wire to a pool panel compliant?
yes, very common because of pool screen cages.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Do they provide shade?
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Are you asking if a pool panel feeder can be 20A?
This has been debated multiple times before. I agree that the requirements in 225.39(D) don't apply to the feeder size or source breaker. It applies to either the main breaker in the pool panel or the sum of the breakers in that panel. So if that panel has two 20A breakers, no it isn't enough and you'd need a 60A backfed main if possible in that pool panel or maybe another 20A breaker to something. Another way around it is to remove the pool panel and just run a 20A multiwire circuit from the house and skip the panel at the pool (or just remove its overcurrent devices turning it into a splice box) and maybe just use two snap switches as the disconnecting means (but watch the rules for where that disconnecting means needs to be).
Also note that 225.39 only applies to detached structures. If the pool panel is mounted to a post, it doesn't apply (a post is not a structure). If it is mounted to the house where the source service is, then it doesn't apply. If it is mounted on a detached pool shed, then it does apply and that panel would also need a ground electrode system there.
Also note that 225.39 only applies to detached structures. If the pool panel is mounted to a post, it doesn't apply (a post is not a structure). If it is mounted to the house where the source service is, then it doesn't apply. If it is mounted on a detached pool shed, then it does apply and that panel would also need a ground electrode system there.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
No, that's absolutely not what that means. You can fuse a circuit in a 60A disconnect at any level equal to or below that.
Nowhere in there does it say the ampacity rating of the feeder must be 60A. Its the feeder disconnect, not the feeder fuse.
On point #2; if the equipment load calc only calls for a 20A circuit, then yes, that would be compliant. On a pool w/ a 1.5HP filter pump and a pool light, that's plenty. That's actually common now to have a single pump and an electric robotic pool cleaner plugged into a receptacle.
I've wired hundreds of pools in Florida. Maybe 20% of them have heater/chillers. And a 60A pool feeder isn't large enough for 90% of those installs, as the typical MCA of a heat pump is >50A, and usually that pool will have multiple pumps as well. Typical pool feeder for me on a pool w/ a heat pump is 90A-125A.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I wrote a code change proposal to try and clarify this section because it makes no sense. Why can I run #10 or #12 wire to a separate structure, install a breaker panel and then install a 60 amp main breaker. That is what this section is allowing. When I wrote the proposal they rejected it and said that it is written exactly as they want it.
Again, if the panel is mounted to the building then there is NO code that states 60 amps or, anything else for that matter, is required. It would be the same as a panel mounted inside the structure.
If the feeder went out to a structure by the pool and mounted out there that would be different but the feeder does not have to be 60 amps.
Again, if the panel is mounted to the building then there is NO code that states 60 amps or, anything else for that matter, is required. It would be the same as a panel mounted inside the structure.
If the feeder went out to a structure by the pool and mounted out there that would be different but the feeder does not have to be 60 amps.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
I don't know why this section exists at all.
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