225A Residential Farm Type Meter Main W/225A Main Breaker

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tryinghard

tryinghard

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California
Hope I can get some help Im looking to feed over 210A from a residential meter main

Does any Manufacture offer 225A main breaker meter mains with feed thu lugs like the farm panel MC0816B1200CT but with 225A main?

Another option is a meter main that will accept a 225A sub feed breaker?
 
You wont find anything with specifically a 225A meter socket. After 200, you jump to a class 320 socket. I am not familiar with the offerings of class 320 meter mains. Have you checked with a few supply houses? Honestly, if you did a load calc and came up with 210 amps, I would redo it and see of you "made a mistake" somewhere ;)
 
Thanks all, interesting thing is the residential 320 doesn’t use CTs nor does the 2-200 the load routes through the meter. The calc might have a mistake but not likely way off, the customer wants the meter main remote at the property line about 300’ from the house, and we’d like to pull one feeder rather than two. The calc method used is Art 220 and Annex D2.a example method, this is a large house: 3,570 sq ft, 2 kitchens (with ranges, dish/garbs, built in micros), 2 laundry’s & dryers, 2 ACs (4.5 ton & 1 ton), 1 vehicle charger (5.4kva), 1 extra freezer, I come up with 25.044 Kva general load and 49.787 kva
 
Rather than a meter main is there a reason you can't use a standard 400 amp meterbase and 225 amp MB enclosure? Or fused disconnect?

I've worked on enough farms, I wouldn't fudge the calcs to limit them to 200 amps. You know how that'd go, then in 6 months they'll build a big shop with all electric heat....
 
Cow said:
Rather than a meter main is there a reason you can't use a standard 400 amp meterbase and 225 amp MB enclosure? Or fused disconnect?

I've worked on enough farms, I wouldn't fudge the calcs to limit them to 200 amps. You know how that'd go, then in 6 months they'll build a big shop with all electric heat....
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Thanks much for input! I’ll call our county to verify if a gfci recept is required at the main, don’t know why in this day and age. Thanks again!
 
tryinghard said:
Thanks all, interesting thing is the residential 320 doesn’t use CTs nor does the 2-200 the load routes through the meter. The calc might have a mistake but not likely way off, the customer wants the meter main remote at the property line about 300’ from the house, and we’d like to pull one feeder rather than two. The calc method used is Art 220 and Annex D2.a example method, this is a large house: 3,570 sq ft, 2 kitchens (with ranges, dish/garbs, built in micros), 2 laundry’s & dryers, 2 ACs (4.5 ton & 1 ton), 1 vehicle charger (5.4kva), 1 extra freezer, I come up with 25.044 Kva general load and 49.787 kva
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I am from Iowa and am not familiar with the way things are done in rural areas of California. With that said.

Have you talked with the utility power company yet?
Will they need to install a new transformer?

300ft, that's a long way to pump 1PH 120/240V power.
(I assume you will increase the size of the feeder wire for VD. As well the EGC size.)

Not trying to cut you out of work but have you considered talking to the utility power company, (before mentioning to the customer), about installing an overhead HV power line and setting a pole mount transformer closer to the house? Or better yet an underground HV feeder with a pad mount power transformer. Because of the customer's power usage the utility power company charge for the install may end up less than what you would be charging for the install from the property line.

The reason I said to talk to the utility power company first is because it may be their policy the meter has to be located at the property line. In my state in rural farm areas it was not unusual for the meter to be installed at the street/property line so the meter reader could read the meter easier. Not an issue with smart meters.

Just going from memory the 1PH 120/240 - 400 amp meter socket is good for 320 amps continuous power. I would think you could work with your electrical wholesale supplier for your options for the load side main breaker/s configuration.

Its been a while since I worked at the trade but if you have a calculated load of 210 amps how did you come up with the 225 amp figure for the main breaker. Sorry if I misunderstood what you said.
 
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jumper said:
What GFCI rec at the main? Where that come from?
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I wondered about that too.

I don't think there is any NEC requirement for it. Might be a utility requirement so the lineman have some place to plug tools or a light in if they are working on the pole that might be hundreds of feet away from any other power source.
 
Jamesco said:
300ft, that's a long way to pump 1PH 120/240V power.
(I assume you will increase the size of the feeder wire for VD. As well the EGC size.)
Click to expand...

I know my signature says "you can't generalize" (which is an integral falacy) but for this type of load profile, you can likely count on the load not getting over 70 amps or so. Even using 100 amps, 250 AL will be more more than adaquate.

Its been a while since I worked at the trade but if you have a calculated load of 210 amps how did you come up with the 225 amp figure for the main breaker. Sorry if I misunderstood what you said.
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225 is the next standard size up.

One other suggestion for the OP is to only have the meter at the road, put the disco by the house. Saves you running a 4 wire feeder. That's what I would do unless utility requires disco with meter.
 
petersonra said:
I wondered about that too.

I don't think there is any NEC requirement for it. Might be a utility requirement so the lineman have some place to plug tools or a light in if they are working on the pole that might be hundreds of feet away from any other power source.
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Possible. VA has a rec requirement, but it is not exactly the same.

Copy and paste for is not working for me this morning. Ugh.

Page 70.

http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/images/SBC/CodeBooks/2012 Virginia Construction Code.pdf
 
The county and utility require a load before turning on the service, often obtained with a gfci recept. The customer does not want underground service easement to house, additionally the service costs more than 250A feeder
 
tryinghard said:
The county and utility require a load before turning on the service, often obtained with a gfci recept. The customer does not want underground service easement to house, additionally the service costs more than 250A feeder
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what size conductors are you using for your feed.
 
It calcs right now at 210a, minimal with some future load added will be 250s (225a main) but I’m probably going 350s to allow for up 300a main, aluminum in 3” pvc
 
electrofelon said:
I know my signature says "you can't generalize" (which is an integral falacy) but for this type of load profile, you can likely count on the load not getting over 70 amps or so. Even using 100 amps, 250 AL will be more more than adaquate.

225 is the next standard size up.
Click to expand...



OP said:
The calc might have a mistake but not likely way off, the customer wants the meter main remote at the property line about 300’ from the house, and we’d like to pull one feeder rather than two. The calc method used is Art 220 and Annex D2.a example method, this is a large house: 3,570 sq ft, 2 kitchens (with ranges, dish/garbs, built in micros), 2 laundry’s & dryers, 2 ACs (4.5 ton & 1 ton), 1 vehicle charger (5.4kva), 1 extra freezer, I come up with 25.044 Kva general load and 49.787 kva
Click to expand...

What is the OP's total calculated load? Is it 210 amps? I am not sure.
If it is 210 amps would you would recommend feeding it from a 225 amp breaker?

One other suggestion for the OP is to only have the meter at the road, put the disco by the house. Saves you running a 4 wire feeder. That's what I would do unless utility requires disco with meter.
Click to expand...

Will that meet NEC code. How will he protect the feeder wire?
The main service disconnect will need to be at the property line pole with the meter.
 
The utility service will be underground about 20’ into the property and terminate in underground pull section of a meter base, then side nipple to service rated 400a fused disconnect with 250a fuses, feed 3-350s 1-2 AL in 3” pvc to 225a 54 space panel at residence
 
tryinghard said:
The utility service will be underground about 20’ into the property and terminate in underground pull section of a meter base, then side nipple to service rated 400a fused disconnect with 250a fuses, feed 3-350s 1-2 AL in 3” pvc to 225a 54 space panel at residence
Click to expand...

Why install at 250 amp over current protection and only use a 225A buss panel?

Talk to your supply house about getting a 400 meter main and have the factory install a 250 amp breaker instead of the 400. I have done this before. I believe the last time it was a B-Line (Cooper) meter main. Even if the factory can't do it or in the time you need it done you could replace the 400 amp breaker yourself.
 
tryinghard said:
It calcs right now at 210a, minimal with some future load added will be 250s (225a main) but I’m probably going 350s to allow for up 300a main, aluminum in 3” pvc
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I would think in this application 350 Alum (feeder) would need 250 amp over current protection 75 deg. C
 
curt swartz said:
Why install at 250 amp over current protection and only use a 225A buss panel?

Talk to your supply house about getting a 400 meter main and have the factory install a 250 amp breaker instead of the 400. I have done this before. I believe the last time it was a B-Line (Cooper) meter main. Even if the factory can't do it or in the time you need it done you could replace the 400 amp breaker yourself.
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The meter main is 300’ away at the property line, the 225 main breaker sub is at the residence. I suppose I could use a 300a panelboard
 
tryinghard said:
The meter main is 300’ away at the property line, the 225 main breaker sub is at the residence. I suppose I could use a 300a panelboard
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Try to buy stock items. You will find the pricing is more competitive vs special order items. A 200 and a 100 amp panel with mains are everyday stock items. A 125 and a 100 as well. A 225 in my area is SO. I've never heard of a 300, but then again I've never looked. You do not have to have a single disconnect means at the residence as long as they are grouped.

350s are good for 300 amp residential. Why waste the money on 250 amp fuses?
 
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