230.70

[mannyb]

Did the code change for Service disconnect location is the disconnect required to be located outside or inside? From 2020 to 2023?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Starting with the 2020 code, one and two family dwellings must have either the service disconnect or an emergency disconnect outside. See 230.85.

 

[mannyb]

Starting with the 2020 code, one and two family dwellings must have either the service disconnect or an emergency disconnect outside. See 230.85.

What's the difference between 230.7a1 and 230.85?

 

[LarryFine]

What's the difference between 230.7a1 and 230.85?

Is that an algebra question?

 

[mannyb]

Is that an algebra question?

I meant 230.70a1 vs 230.85

 

[augie47]

230.70 seemingly addresses all series whereas 230.85 actually covers the emergency disconnect for one and two family. If you elect to make the emergency disconnect your service disconnect then 230.70 applies to it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What's the difference between 230.7a1 and 230.85?

In general, 230.70(A)(1) permits the service disconnect to be either outside or inside nearest the entry of the service conductors.
For one and two family dwellings, this is modified by requiring a means of disconnect on the outside of the dwelling.

 

[kwired]

Service disconnect rules haven't changed, can be inside nearest point or entry or outside as it always has been.

2020 the Emergency disconnect was added for one and two family dwellings, which does not need to meet all the service disconnect requirements if there is a service disconnect inside. An outdoor disconnect can serve both purposes.

 

[GarwoodV6]

Correct me if I'm wrong,...

As I understand it, an "Emergency Disconnect" does not have a neutral bonding strap, leaving that to remain in the first panel downstream, with an equipment ground bond wire brought back to the "Emergency Disconnect" box from the first panel. This applies to a generator ATS where the neutral bond and grounding electrode conductor already exists in the first panel.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Correct me if I'm wrong,...

As I understand it, an "Emergency Disconnect" does not have a neutral bonding strap, leaving that to remain in the first panel downstream, with an equipment ground bond wire brought back to the "Emergency Disconnect" box from the first panel. This applies to a generator ATS where the neutral bond and grounding electrode conductor already exists in the first panel.

No need for the EGC if the disconnect is marked "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT". The neutral is used to bond the metal enclosure of the disconnect, but you only need 3 conductors between that emergency disconnect and the service disconnect inside. The bonding and grounding will take place only at the service disconnect.

This rule has created a lot of confusion in the industry, and the 2026 code will simply say that the service disconnect for one and two-family dwellings must be outside.

 

[GarwoodV6]

Agreed. It seems that the more the CMP attempts to address this issue, the more variables come into play and the more complicated -and confusing- it becomes

So, the neutral bond in the ATS is left in place, AND in the panel fed from the ATS? Do I then add a new ground rod and GEC to the ATS? Do I leave the existing ground rod and GEC connected to the house panel? Do I tie the two ground rods together?

Does it matter that the panel fed by the ATS is also located outside? Do I simply label the ATS as the "Emergency Disconnect" and apply a "Service Disconnect" label to the existing panel cover?

I have a generator and 200A ATS being connected between the meter and the single existing 150MCB house panel which is also located outside next to the meter. The ATS location is on the opposite side of the panel.

I prefer to keep the panel MCB as the Service Disconnect as this is the only way to keep the generator from powering the house when the Main ATS breaker is turned off. This also avoids the issue of neutral/ground bonding in the existing panel, avoiding the need to separate grounds and neutrals in the panel as well as 3-wire branch circuits serving the range and the clothes dryer.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Agreed. It seems that the more the CMP attempts to address this issue, the more variables come into play and the more complicated -and confusing- it becomes

So, the neutral bond in the ATS is left in place, AND in the panel fed from the ATS? Do I then add a new ground rod and GEC to the ATS? Do I leave the existing ground rod and GEC connected to the house panel? Do I tie the two ground rods together?

Does it matter that the panel fed by the ATS is also located outside? Do I simply label the ATS as the "Emergency Disconnect" and apply a "Service Disconnect" label to the existing panel cover?

I have a generator and 200A ATS being connected between the meter and the single existing 150MCB house panel which is also located outside next to the meter. The ATS location is on the opposite side of the panel.

I prefer to keep the panel MCB as the Service Disconnect as this is the only way to keep the generator from powering the house when the Main ATS breaker is turned off. This also avoids the issue of neutral/ground bonding in the existing panel, avoiding the need to separate grounds and neutrals in the panel as well as 3-wire branch circuits serving the range and the clothes dryer.

Only if the ATS is listed as suitable for use as service equipment and is marked "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT".

Note that at least one major manufacturer of ATSs has written instructions that say you cannot do this and you must put the bond only in the ATS and land the GECs in the ATS, and run 4 wires to the inside panel and remove the bonds their. These would be 110.3(B) instructions.