240 Delta to 480 Delta

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My question is just to confirm grounding point on secondary side. We have a 240 volt grounded B phase service. A new transformer was set for a motor load to step up to 480 volt. This is a delta - delta transformer. My question is on the secondary side I need to take a bonding conductor from any of the three phase to ground to created a corner grounded delta, I know I've done a set up like this in the past but grounding a phase always makes me question myself!

Thanks for any help!!!
 
You can set it up as a corner grounded Delta or an ungrounded Delta. The latter setup will require the use of ground detectors.
 
Thanks, I am going to set up as corner ground. So I install a bonding jumper from any phase terminal to ground to create the corner ground, Correct?
Yes.

people always question grounding something other then a "neutral". However whether there is a neutral or not, a system has no ground reference until you do ground a point (any point) of that system.
 
The secondary of your 240-480 step-up transformer is now a separately derived system so you start over with the grounding/bonding issue. So yes, you bond one of the 480V phases to ground or as mentioned, add ground monitoring.

There is no VFD on this motor, right? If so, or if there ever MIGHT be, chuck that transformer and get one with a 480/277 secondary and bond the neutral.
 
The secondary of your 240-480 step-up transformer is now a separately derived system so you start over with the grounding/bonding issue. So yes, you bond one of the 480V phases to ground or as mentioned, add ground monitoring.

There is no VFD on this motor, right? If so, or if there ever MIGHT be, chuck that transformer and get one with a 480/277 secondary and bond the neutral.


Good pint on the WYE, unless you're running the system as an ungrounded Delta is there ever a good reason to use a corner ground?
 
Good pint on the WYE, unless you're running the system as an ungrounded Delta is there ever a good reason to use a corner ground?
If there is no "neutral" available, what else is there to ground if you are to have a grounded system?
 
Good pint on the WYE, unless you're running the system as an ungrounded Delta is there ever a good reason to use a corner ground?

Availability of the transformer probably. When used as a step-down from 480 to 240, the configuration of the 480V windings as a primary is irrelevant, so the convention is to just wind them delta and therefore off-the-shelf transformers at the local supply house will be that way. But if you want one with a 480Y, it pretty much has to be made as a step-up transformer and since that use is less common, it will come from the mfr. I’ve never waited more than the transit time for one, the mfrs or stocking reps usually have them, it’s just not something the average distributor keeps in inventory.

Something else I forgot to mention, the 2011 code began REQUIRING that a transformer used for step-up be LISTED for that purpose now, proved by either markings on the nameplate or manufacturer data sheets. So if you buy a used older transformer or repurpose one from some other part of your plant and cannot show this, it can get you a red tag from the AHJ.
 
My question is just to confirm grounding point on secondary side. We have a 240 volt grounded B phase service. A new transformer was set for a motor load to step up to 480 volt. This is a delta - delta transformer. My question is on the secondary side I need to take a bonding conductor from any of the three phase to ground to created a corner grounded delta, I know I've done a set up like this in the past but grounding a phase always makes me question myself!

Thanks for any help!!!
I agree with what others have posted here but just a passing thought. Could he get 240V motor(s)?
 
I agree with what others have posted here but just a passing thought. Could he get 240V motor(s)?
Most NEMA designed general purpose three phase motors are 230/460 dual voltage rated, well at least up to about 50 or 60 HP anyway. If it is an OEM, definite purpose, or other specialty motor then it may only be wound for utilization at a single voltage.
 
Most NEMA designed general purpose three phase motors are 230/460 dual voltage rated, well at least up to about 50 or 60 HP anyway. If it is an OEM, definite purpose, or other specialty motor then it may only be wound for utilization at a single voltage.
OK. The OP might be able to get 230V motors - if the 240V units have not yet been purchased. It would save/have saved the cost of the transformer, its installation switchgear, and protection.
 
OK. The OP might be able to get 230V motors - if the 240V units have not yet been purchased. It would save/have saved the cost of the transformer, its installation switchgear, and protection.
Where one runs into the problem of wrong voltage/number of phases often is when owner gets a great deal on used equipment, then spends a bunch of unexpected money, maybe even more then the equipment cost him, making it work.

You probably don't see as much of that though, as nearly all single phase equipment for you is ~230 volt and three phase equipment is ~400 volt. Until you get into higher power applications anyway where you have over 1000 volts as the system voltage.
 
Where one runs into the problem of wrong voltage/number of phases often is when owner gets a great deal on used equipment, then spends a bunch of unexpected money, maybe even more then the equipment cost him, making it work.

You probably don't see as much of that though, as nearly all single phase equipment for you is ~230 volt and three phase equipment is ~400 volt. Until you get into higher power applications anyway where you have over 1000 volts as the system voltage.


Then the screaming deal is not so screaming, unless you count the screaming about the bill.
 
Where one runs into the problem of wrong voltage/number of phases often is when owner gets a great deal on used equipment, then spends a bunch of unexpected money, maybe even more then the equipment cost him, making it work.
Yes, I've heard of examples of that on this forum. Unqualified people checking the specs.


You probably don't see as much of that though, as nearly all single phase equipment for you is ~230 volt and three phase equipment is ~400 volt. Until you get into higher power applications anyway where you have over 1000 volts as the system voltage.
Yes, that's true for many standard applications engineered here.

But, quite a lot of my experience was on custom build, sometimes from basic component level. Things like a common DC buss for variable speed DC drives, sub-synchronous converter cascade systems (Kramers), AVRs, high current rectifiers for anodising and wire welding etc........so I saw a lot of non-standard voltages.
One aspect of that I've noted here is that members often seek advice on standard transformers available to change the voltage for a particular application. Ours were mostly custom built. If you want say, 920V/11kV it has to be.

However, we also did VFDs typically for fans, pumps, and compressors with standard voltages. Rarely single phase though.
I suppose power electronic applications best describes what we got up to in our not so spare time.....:D

I digress. Mods, be kind.
 
Yes, I've heard of examples of that on this forum. Unqualified people checking the specs.
they have to know there is such a thing as specs. Many times you are lucky they just know that they do or don't have three phase capability, though they don't know there are different three phase possibilities.
 
they have to know there is such a thing as specs. Many times you are lucky they just know that they do or don't have three phase capability, though they don't know there are different three phase possibilities.
You'd think whoever is paying for the unsuitable kit...........ach, maybe not.
 
Thanks Guys for the responses, the saw/motor came from an old facility with 480 service and the new building only has 240 available thats why we stepped it up, theres other components requiring 480 thats why the motor wasn't reconfigured for 240.
The new transformer is rated for step up. Its been several years since I did a new corner grounded system so wanted to double check myself so i don't let the smoke out. I appreciate all the info.
 
Thanks Guys for the responses, the saw/motor came from an old facility with 480 service and the new building only has 240 available thats why we stepped it up, theres other components requiring 480 thats why the motor wasn't reconfigured for 240.
The new transformer is rated for step up. Its been several years since I did a new corner grounded system so wanted to double check myself so i don't let the smoke out. I appreciate all the info.
That all makes sense. Thank you.
I didn't know if it was a new installation or a revamp from an existing facility.
 
Thanks Guys for the responses, the saw/motor came from an old facility with 480 service and the new building only has 240 available thats why we stepped it up, theres other components requiring 480 thats why the motor wasn't reconfigured for 240.
The new transformer is rated for step up. Its been several years since I did a new corner grounded system so wanted to double check myself so i don't let the smoke out. I appreciate all the info.
But to Besoeker's point, before embarking on the transformer, make sure the motor is not capable of being reconfigured for 230V. That could save you a lot of trouble.
 
But to Besoeker's point, before embarking on the transformer, make sure the motor is not capable of being reconfigured for 230V. That could save you a lot of trouble.

Even if, as the OP states, there are other 480V loads, they might get by with a much smaller transformer.
OTOH, if the motor controls are built around a 460V motor it might be problematic to change the motor.

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