240 v heated floor gfci panel

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Stevenfyeager

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Location
United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
In an older house, my customer is adding a 240 heated tile floor. Federal Pacific panel, it has a two pole breaker there for another deleted purpose. Since I can't probably buy a gfi Fed. Pac. breaker, I will need to add a subpanel for the new gfi. But in order to do that, I will need 4 wires, because it will be a subpanel, right? I can't just break that line and put that gfi in it, correct? There is no such thing as a 240 v gfi device, like we have 120 v gfi's correct? I have to go with a new subpanel, run 4 wires from the main panel, and a two pole gfi breaker, that's the only way, right? Thank you
 
I have Nuheat floor heat in my bathroom at home. The built in GFCI does trip every month or so for no known reason. I bought a similar unit, aube TH115-AF-GA on ebay, which does not have ground fault in it. Since it is on a ground fault circuit already, the plan was to install it (but laziness leaves it in the drawer for now). Also, it is labeled as 120 VAC or 240 VAC.
 
Barbqranch said:
I have Nuheat floor heat in my bathroom at home. The built in GFCI does trip every month or so for no known reason. I bought a similar unit, aube TH115-AF-GA on ebay, which does not have ground fault in it. Since it is on a ground fault circuit already, the plan was to install it (but laziness leaves it in the drawer for now). Also, it is labeled as 120 VAC or 240 VAC.
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Scroll down on this link to where they compare this product to others. It does state that it has gfci

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Ra...F8&qid=1487194462&sr=8-1&keywords=th115-af-ga
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Thank you, sounds like when the tile man installs the heat cable, it will come with a gfi protected thermostat. My job is easy.
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Around here, installing electric in-floor heat is considered "electrical work" and needs to be done by an EC. It also needs to be inspected prior to the thin set going down. I don't let the tile guy lay the heat on our jobs. :happyno:
 
MNSparky said:
Around here, installing electric in-floor heat is considered "electrical work" and needs to be done by an EC. It also needs to be inspected prior to the thin set going down. I don't let the tile guy lay the heat on our jobs. :happyno:
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I don't mind letting tile guy install heating cable - if it fails it is his problem. He has done this before and knows what he is doing. I suppose it is questionable whether he needs to be licensed to do it here as well, but have never had any problems with that so far. Has always been same tile guy that I have been around when they do put in heated floors.
 
kwired said:
I don't mind letting tile guy install heating cable - if it fails it is his problem. He has done this before and knows what he is doing. I suppose it is questionable whether he needs to be licensed to do it here as well, but have never had any problems with that so far. Has always been same tile guy that I have been around when they do put in heated floors.
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So, does it get inspected then? Under your permit?

There are so many different tile guys around here, pretty much a different one for every GC. I'm strict on this because it's ultimately on my permit. If they have issues, it would be easy for the tile guy to walk away and I'd be left with the mess.
 
MNSparky said:
So, does it get inspected then? Under your permit?

There are so many different tile guys around here, pretty much a different one for every GC. I'm strict on this because it's ultimately on my permit. If they have issues, it would be easy for the tile guy to walk away and I'd be left with the mess.
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Off top of my head I can only recall one that was on a project that actually had a permit, it was a new house. The rest I recall were projects where I wasn't required to file a permit.

We only have about 3.5 million less people in the county where I live then you have in the Minneapolis metro area.:)

The best tile guy in the area works a regular area (for him) that is at least 200 miles in diameter, but has also priced himself so that he doesn't do much "low end" work.
 
Until recently the tile guys did the work and never got it inspected. Then the light bulb went off and the inspectors are now requiring the electrician to install the floor heat. Schluter floors are the more common ones lately. I have installed the individual roll of wire, the mats as well as the schulter. The mats and schulter seem to be the easiest methods, however measuring and getting it right is a bit tricky.

Anyway, we get it inspected and no one can walk on the floor till the tile guy gets there so it is scheduled closely.

When we use the mats or wire we get the tile guy to lay down the 1/2" concrete board (wonder board) so that it borders the area with a 3" strip. Then they use 1/4" in the middle area where the wire or mats are installed. This finishes the area flush with the 1/2" border so they can do an even mud base across the area.
 
For those that are getting inspected, just what does the inspector look for? The installer probably knows more about the product and install then the inspector does in most cases I would guess. Is there much in NEC that would apply outside of the supply circuit and 110.3(B)?

If inspector wants to do a rough inspection of such an install I think I would hand him the installation instructions and make him read them before I even show him the floor, if he refuses he either already knows (or thinks he knows) those instructions pretty well or is not really doing his job properly. If in a metro area and he sees a lot of these floors, maybe he does know more about them, around here he probably doesn't see all that many of them and I don't expect him to be well versed on the instructions for every possible system out there.

424.44 is closest thing I can find in NEC that may apply - but is titled "Installation of Cables in Concrete or Poured Masonry Floors". Tile floors are not poured floors so it shouldn't apply.
 
kwired said:
For those that are getting inspected, just what does the inspector look for? The installer probably knows more about the product and install then the inspector does in most cases I would guess. Is there much in NEC that would apply outside of the supply circuit and 110.3(B)?

If inspector wants to do a rough inspection of such an install I think I would hand him the installation instructions and make him read them before I even show him the floor, if he refuses he either already knows (or thinks he knows) those instructions pretty well or is not really doing his job properly. If in a metro area and he sees a lot of these floors, maybe he does know more about them, around here he probably doesn't see all that many of them and I don't expect him to be well versed on the instructions for every possible system out there.

424.44 is closest thing I can find in NEC that may apply - but is titled "Installation of Cables in Concrete or Poured Masonry Floors". Tile floors are not poured floors so it shouldn't apply.
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They are looking for if it is installed to manufacturers instructions. I always leave the instructions on site for reference. They are mainly concerned with if it got run under vanitys or toilets or if it's too close to a wall or cabinet and that the cables are properly spaced. They also want to verify the product is listed for use in showers if it gets installed in one.
 
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