24vdc/120vac

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Pierre C Belarge said:
Manufacturers can install wiring differently within their equipment than we do in the field. They have it tested as such and sell it as a "manufactured assembly".

We are not permitted to do so in the field, as there is no field testing and too many variables for control of that portion of the field installation.
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I thought that Larry was talking about field installed conductors, but after a second look, it appears that the conductors in question were part of the manufactured assembly.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I do not believe MOST in the country, but maybe most on the forum. There are many jurisdictions that are still behind the 2008, some even further back than the 2005.
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You may be right about the country. New Jersey only adopted the 2008 last week. Since the 2008 has been around for over a year most of us respond to questions using that version of the NEC unless someone asks for a reference from an older version.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
That could be a Class 1 control circuit and would be permitted in with directly associated power conductors.
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Pierre C Belarge said:
Manufacturers can install wiring differently within their equipment than we do in the field. They have it tested as such and sell it as a "manufactured assembly".

We are not permitted to do so in the field, as there is no field testing and too many variables for control of that portion of the field installation.
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don_resqcapt19 said:
I thought that Larry was talking about field installed conductors, but after a second look, it appears that the conductors in question were part of the manufactured assembly.
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I'm talking about the four small conductors inside the same whip as the four main power conductors (and EGC.) Even when we split the small four away from the large four, two carry 12v and two carry 240v.

I remember reading that the "associated wiring" allowance applies to enclosures, but not raceways. (Personally, I have never had an inspector mention the small wires remaining separate from the others.)

In my opinion, the permission to use Cl1 wiring methods should be universal, meaning that, as long as we're using a wiring method allowable for the higher voltage, we should be able to use it for the lower voltage.
 
Thanks guys.
And I thought this would be a simple question :D
We currently run the two in separate pipes and it seems that doing it this way we reduce our potential problems.

Thank Again
 
The requirement for field installations is to install the Class 2 wiring separate from the power conductors.

For manufacturers, as I mentioned earlier, they have some relief, as they get their process of installation tested at the factory and follow different Standards, so they can install Class 2 wiring and power in their whips. They are restricted as to the length of the whip. I do not know what that length is, but I have only seen it in relatively short runs.
 
I thought there was enough expressed in the orginal OP to not get into Class wiring even though there was an FPN within
the Code Article that was questioned.

It seems the credit goes to the orginal designer of the application or even tha applicator themselves as to run, two conduits!

Surely they knew the Class of Structure as to apply a correct application, or the unstated requirements that needed to be met.
 
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725 Not Applicable

725 Not Applicable

725.1 Scope.
This article covers remote-control, signaling, and power-limited circuits that are not an integral part of a device or appliance.
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IMO, the 24vdc I/O wiring IS an integral part of the single industrial machine, and that 725 is not applicable when determining if 24vdc can be in the same reaceway or enclosure as power conductors, as long as 300.3(C) is followed.

Thoughts?
 
IMM_Doctor said:
725.1 Scope.
This article covers remote-control, signaling, and power-limited circuits that are not an integral part of a device or appliance.
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IMO, the 24vdc I/O wiring IS an integral part of the single industrial machine, and that 725 is not applicable when determining if 24vdc can be in the same reaceway or enclosure as power conductors, as long as 300.3(C) is followed.

Thoughts?
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None of the NEC rules apply to wiring that is part of the "listed equipment".
 
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