3 pole ITE breaker

[Charlie Bob]

Has anybody fooled with this kind of breaker before?
How hard it would be to find one in 100amp?

 

[Charlie Bob]

I'll be DOGGONEIT!!!!!!!!!!
I found that breaker on the Internet.
New $721.00
Refurbished $275.00

 

[mivey]

Glad we could help. :grin:

 

[zog]

I'll be DOGGONEIT!!!!!!!!!!
I found that breaker on the Internet.
New $721.00
Refurbished $275.00

Link? Refuribished? To what standard? Tested? Not new, maybe unused but not "new".

 

[Charlie Bob]

i ordered it trhu my supplyer, the cheapest one we could find was $275.00 at relectric.com.

here's the link.
http://www.relectric.com/Store/Circuit-Breakers/EE3B100?kty=12517

 

[zog]

i ordered it trhu my supplyer, the cheapest one we could find was $275.00 at relectric.com.

here's the link.
http://www.relectric.com/Store/Circuit-Breakers/EE3B100?kty=12517

Yep, cheapest, ever wonder why? At least they do some testing.

 

[mivey]

Yep, cheapest, ever wonder why? At least they do some testing.

$721 "new", $275 cheapest. What would you consider to be a fair market price for a properly tested breaker of this type?

FWIW, I bought a new Zinsco replacement breaker the other day so why would there not be a new replacement breaker of the OP's type available?

 

[Cow]

FWIW, I bought a new Zinsco replacement breaker the other day so why would there not be a new replacement breaker of the OP's type available?

My first thought was that Zinsco's are probably a heck of a lot more common than a 3p ITE.

 

[zog]

$721 "new", $275 cheapest. What would you consider to be a fair market price for a properly tested breaker of this type?

That is a fair market price for a tested breaker, but you have no idea how the are reconditioned because they are not PEARL certified and don't follow thier standards. http://www.pearl1.org/main.htm

FWIW, I bought a new Zinsco replacement breaker the other day so why would there not be a new replacement breaker of the OP's type available?

New, by definition (From OEM's) is a term that can only be applied to breakers purchased from the manufacturer (Or an authorized rep) and was manufactured within a certian time period, I think 6 months but I forget. Otherwise it is unused/surplus.

This becomes very important when dealing with residential and smaller commercail breakers for anti-counterfiting controls by the OEM's.

Zinsco has not made a circuit breaker for about 40 years, so what you bought was either surplus or counterfit.

 

[mivey]

This becomes very important when dealing with residential and smaller commercail breakers for anti-counterfiting controls by the OEM's.

Zinsco has not made a circuit breaker for about 40 years, so what you bought was either surplus or counterfit.

I got it from here: UBI Type Z
Do you think I got a counterfeit? It seemed to work fine, and seemed like a reputable company.

 

[zog]

I got it from here: UBI Type Z
Do you think I got a counterfeit?

I never heard of thos eguys before, but I don't deal with residential breakers. But they have sold counterfeit breakers before. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

Not dealing with residential I am not too familiar with Zinsco either, but replacing these is not recommended. Here is a good link regarding Zinsco breakers

http://www.inspectapedia.com/electric/Zinscoreplace.htm

It seemed to work fine, and seemed like a reputable company.

What does seem to work fine mean?

 

[mivey]

I never heard of thos eguys before, but I don't deal with residential breakers. But they have sold counterfeit breakers before. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

I'm sure other suppliers have been fooled by similar schemes. More thanks to China.

Not dealing with residential I am not too familiar with Zinsco either, but replacing these is not recommended. Here is a good link regarding Zinsco breakers

http://www.inspectapedia.com/electric/Zinscoreplace.htm

What does seem to work fine mean?

Work fine as best as I could tell when installing any residential breaker. The bus appeared to be in good shape, the breaker connection was tight, the breaker fit the panel perfectly, no evidence of excessive heating under load. I'm not a mobile breaker testing lab, but here is what the manufacturer claims:

Representative samples of the UBI Series were tested in accordance with the National Electrical Code and the Standard for Molded-Case Circuit Breakers Enclosures, ANSI/UL 489, 10th Edition. The following tests were performed: 200% Calibration at 25?C, 135% Calibration at 25?C Overload, Tungsten Lamp Load, 100% Calibration at 40?C, Endurance, Interrupting Ability, 200% trip-out at 25?C and Dielectric Voltage Withstand.

After evaluation, these breakers were found to comply with the applicable requirements of the Standard for Molded-Case Breakers and Circuit Breaker Enclosures (ANSI/UL 489,10th Edition), as required by the National Electric Code.

 

[zog]

I'm sure other suppliers have been fooled by similar schemes. More thanks to China.

Not China's fault, that may be the same plant where the real ones were made. The OEM's will give a plant, say in China, an order for a million breakers. During that time the OEM will oversee quality standards, including assembly, materials, testing, and certification. After the million breakers are made they may pull out and start making the same breaker or a newer model at another plant, usually somewhere even cheaper. Now that plant in China has a factory tooled and people trained to make that breaker and sometimes they keep doing it, but without the QC procedures being controlled by the OEM, so quality is sacrificed for the bottom line.

Spotting a counterfeit breaker can be difficult, but every OEM has an anti-counterfiet section on thier website for ways to spot them, the most common indicator is price, if you are getting a really good deal, there is a reason for it.

This PPT has some good indicators for breakers and other products
http://www.bing.com/search?q=UL+counterfiet+breakers&FORM=SOLTDF

If you are ever not sure, contact UL's anti-counterfeiting division, they are glad to help you and track down the source (Yes they raid factories all over the world with armed assult teams).
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/services/programs/anticounterfeitingoperations/

 

[mivey]

Not China's fault, that may be the same plant where the real ones were made. The OEM's will give a plant, say in China, an order for a million breakers. During that time the OEM will oversee quality standards, including assembly, materials, testing, and certification. After the million breakers are made they may pull out and start making the same breaker or a newer model at another plant, usually somewhere even cheaper. Now that plant in China has a factory tooled and people trained to make that breaker and sometimes they keep doing it, but without the QC procedures being controlled by the OEM, so quality is sacrificed for the bottom line.

Spotting a counterfeit breaker can be difficult, but every OEM has an anti-counterfiet section on thier website for ways to spot them, the most common indicator is price, if you are getting a really good deal, there is a reason for it.

This PPT has some good indicators for breakers and other products
http://www.bing.com/search?q=UL+counterfiet+breakers&FORM=SOLTDF

If you are ever not sure, contact UL's anti-counterfeiting division, they are glad to help you and track down the source (Yes they raid factories all over the world with armed assult teams).
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/services/programs/anticounterfeitingoperations/

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[LarryFine]

Spotting a counterfeit breaker can be difficult, but every OEM has an anti-counterfiet section on thier website for ways to spot them, the most common indicator is price, if you are getting a really good deal, there is a reason for it.

I had the same thing happen years ago with a house I got a great deal on.



I walked through the front door and found myself in the back yard.

 

[zog]

I had the same thing happen years ago with a house I got a great deal on.

I walked through the front door and found myself in the back yard.

What kills me is how many on this forum will bash the big box stores and then go find the cheapest OCPD they can on the internet without knowing where it came from, what was really done to it, if it was tested, how it was tested, etc..

I see used breakers on EBAY, I assume someone buys them or they would not be there. How someone can buy a used breaker on EBAY from someones junk pile and put it into service without any proper testing amazes me. If that breaker fails and causes damages or injuries you can bet the lawsuits will follow.

 

[LarryFine]

What kills me is how many on this forum will bash the big box stores and then go find the cheapest OCPD they can on the internet without knowing where it came from, what was really done to it, if it was tested, how it was tested, etc..

I see used breakers on EBAY, I assume someone buys them or they would not be there. How someone can buy a used breaker on EBAY from someones junk pile and put it into service without any proper testing amazes me. If that breaker fails and causes damages or injuries you can bet the lawsuits will follow.

Well, I don't bash the big boxes.

 

[mivey]

Well, I don't bash the big boxes.

Aww come on, it's the latest craze.

 

[Cold Fusion]

.. If that breaker fails and causes damages or injuries you can bet the lawsuits will follow.

I would doubt it.

Defense Lawyer:
So you admit you know nothing about electricity. You signed a waiver acknowledging that the condition of the circuit breaker was, "Used, unknown", with no implied warranty. You opened your house panel, plugged in the circuit breaker and it blew up burning you.

Jury Person:
Judge, can we get this guy arrested for Felony Time Theft.

or how about this one -

Defense Laywer:
So, you are a journeyman, certified by the state to be an expert in house wiring and fully aware of dangers involved with installing circuit breakers. You signed a waiver acknowledging that the condition of the circuit breaker was, "Used, unknown", with no implied warranty. You did no testing of the used breaker. You opened your house panel, plugged in the circuit breaker and it blew up burning you.

Jury Person:
Judge, I understand that there is no law against being a moron. But if he drove himself to the courtroom today, can we get this guy arrested for Felony Transport of a Moron.

I don't see a dearth of lawsuits on the horizon.

cf

 

[zog]

I would doubt it.

Defense Lawyer:
So you admit you know nothing about electricity. You signed a waiver acknowledging that the condition of the circuit breaker was, "Used, unknown", with no implied warranty. You opened your house panel, plugged in the circuit breaker and it blew up burning you.

Jury Person:
Judge, can we get this guy arrested for Felony Time Theft.

or how about this one -

Defense Laywer:
So, you are a journeyman, certified by the state to be an expert in house wiring and fully aware of dangers involved with installing circuit breakers. You signed a waiver acknowledging that the condition of the circuit breaker was, "Used, unknown", with no implied warranty. You did no testing of the used breaker. You opened your house panel, plugged in the circuit breaker and it blew up burning you.

Jury Person:
Judge, I understand that there is no law against being a moron. But if he drove himself to the courtroom today, can we get this guy arrested for Felony Transport of a Moron.

I don't see a dearth of lawsuits on the horizon.

cf

What? Where did those come from?

How about this. The fire investigation showed the cause of the fire and deaths on the family was electrial. The source has been traced to a circuti breaker that was recently installed by XYZ Electrical.

XYZ then is asked to provide a purchase order or recipt for the equipment installed that caused the fire. The breaker was bought off ebay used for $5 from ECjoe. No test report is available.