3-Way Switch Problem

[hardworker]

I have a 3-way switch controlling a kitchen ceiling fan w/light. There are two switches; one on each side of the kitchen.

At a given time, a particular switch will not send power to the fixture. If you go to the other switch and power the fixture, you can then go back to the non-working switch and it will now work.

The problem will transfer from one switch to the other, but by going to the opposite switch from the non-working, you can always make the switch work.

I have never been able to create the situation to make a switch become non-working. It seems to take place as the fixture is in non-use for a period of time.

I believe the switches are wired correctly, but I have not completely traced the circuit. I thought this was a defective switch, so I replaced one of them. It made no difference.

What would be your interpertation of the problem?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sounds like a bad 3-way switch or it is wired incorrectly. Is there a 4 way in the circuit? If you can't create the problem then perhaps it is a bad fixture-- Is it a recessed can?

 

[stevebea]

I have a 3-way switch controlling a kitchen ceiling fan w/light. There are two switches; one on each side of the kitchen.

At a given time, a particular switch will not send power to the fixture. If you go to the other switch and power the fixture, you can then go back to the non-working switch and it will now work.

The problem will transfer from one switch to the other, but by going to the opposite switch from the non-working, you can always make the switch work.

I have never been able to create the situation to make a switch become non-working. It seems to take place as the fixture is in non-use for a period of time.

I believe the switches are wired correctly, but I have not completely traced the circuit. I thought this was a defective switch, so I replaced one of them. It made no difference.

What would be your interpertation of the problem?

Sounds like a traveller and common are swapped perhaps..... not quite sure why a period of non-use would have any effect.

 

[480sparky]

I have a 3-way switch controlling a kitchen ceiling fan w/light. There are two switches; one on each side of the kitchen.

At a given time, a particular switch will not send power to the fixture. If you go to the other switch and power the fixture, you can then go back to the non-working switch and it will now work.

The problem will transfer from one switch to the other, but by going to the opposite switch from the non-working, you can always make the switch work.

I have never been able to create the situation to make a switch become non-working. It seems to take place as the fixture is in non-use for a period of time.

I believe the switches are wired correctly, but I have not completely traced the circuit. I thought this was a defective switch, so I replaced one of them. It made no difference.

What would be your interpertation of the problem?

A pair of 3-ways will have four possibilities: Up/Up, Up/Down, Down/Up and Down/Down. Set the switches to those four possibilities and make note of which change does not make the light function as you would anticipate. Then it will be the OTHER switch that is wired incorrectly.

You mentioned you changed a switch. Did you just swap wires terminal-for-terminal, or did you pay attention to which one was the common wire? Not all 3-ways function the same in relationship to the terminals. This is true from one manufacturer to the next. One will put the common on one side by itself, while another will put it on the end by itself.


Another possibility.... the entire 3-way is fed from a switched source, and that switch is rarely used.

 

[hillbilly1]

I vote for a bad three way. I had one do that in my own house, it would even squeek when you flipped it.

 

[hardworker]

There is no 4-way in the circuit and it is not a recessed can. It is a ceiling fan w/ light.

It is not on a switched circuit.

I changed the switch, but I did not pay attention to the terminals.

I need to run the test and check terminals.

 

[480sparky]

............

I changed the switch, but I did not pay attention to the terminals.

I need to run the test and check terminals.

This method may take some time, but it will work:

1. Shut the power off, and disconnect all the wires on the two switches. (I’m going to ignore any bare ground wire here for simplicity’s sake)

2. Make sure none of the ends are connected or touching, and turn the power back on. You will find one wire that is hot. It could be in either location.

3. Shut the power off and hook that one hot wire to the ‘common’ of the 3-way switch. Hook the other two wires to the other two terminals of the switch. Put that switch back into place.

4. Turn the power back on, and go to the other set of wires. One will be hot. Flip the other switch, and another wire will be hot.

5. Turn the power off, and hook those two wires to the ‘traveler’ terminals of the second switch. Hook the third to the ‘common’.

6. If everything else is correct, you should have a pair of functioning 3-ways.

 

[charlie b]

A pair of 3-ways will have four possibilities: Up/Up, Up/Down, Down/Up and Down/Down.

In this case, there appears to be two others, as may be inferred from this statement:

It seems to take place as the fixture is in non-use for a period of time.

Presuming that Up/Up and Down/Down are intended to be the two positions that leave the light off, then the other two possibilities are,
? Switch to the Up/Up combination, and wait for a while, and
? Switch to the Down/Down combination, and wait for a while.

Time seems to be an important element in this set of symptoms. So the question becomes, ?After I turn the light/fan off, what happens over the next few minutes or hours that can change the ability of either of the switches to turn them back on??

If this were an electronically controlled system that included a capacitor, then perhaps something along the lines of a capacitor discharge might be part of the explanation. But I tend to doubt that. What else changes over time? Well, electrical things tend to cool down over time, after they are turned off. This would throw suspicion on the light/fan fixture itself, or on the tightness of the connections of the fixture wires.

It is an interesting mystery. The series of questions I would ask first is this:
1. Did this system ever work normally?
2. If so, when did it stop working normally?
3. What changed shortly before it stopped working normally (e.g., change out of fixture, rewire a supposedly unrelated circuit, replace a breaker in the main panel, etc.)?

 

[LarryFine]

This method may take some time, but it will work:

1. Shut the power off, and disconnect all the wires on the two switches. (I?m going to ignore any bare ground wire here for simplicity?s sake)

2. Make sure none of the ends are connected or touching, and turn the power back on. You will find one wire that is hot. It could be in either location.

3. Shut the power off and hook that one hot wire to the ?common? of the 3-way switch. Hook the other two wires to the other two terminals of the switch. Put that switch back into place.

4. Turn the power back on, and go to the other set of wires. One will be hot. Flip the other switch, and another wire will be hot.

5. Turn the power off, and hook those two wires to the ?traveler? terminals of the second switch. Hook the third to the ?common?.

6. If everything else is correct, you should have a pair of functioning 3-ways.

I posted this almost verbatim a few years ago in another forum. "I approve this message."

 

[jxofaltrds]

I changed the switch, but I did not pay attention to the terminals.

This is where I would start.

Then go to the light.

 

[stud696981]

This method may take some time, but it will work:

1. Shut the power off, and disconnect all the wires on the two switches. (I?m going to ignore any bare ground wire here for simplicity?s sake)

2. Make sure none of the ends are connected or touching, and turn the power back on. You will find one wire that is hot. It could be in either location.

3. Shut the power off and hook that one hot wire to the ?common? of the 3-way switch. Hook the other two wires to the other two terminals of the switch. Put that switch back into place.

4. Turn the power back on, and go to the other set of wires. One will be hot. Flip the other switch, and another wire will be hot.

5. Turn the power off, and hook those two wires to the ?traveler? terminals of the second switch. Hook the third to the ?common?.

6. If everything else is correct, you should have a pair of functioning 3-ways.

This is the perfect answer.

I just wanted to add one more thing, while you have both switches disconnected, it wouldn?t hurt to test each switch. Use a continuity meter between the common and the other two screws to verify that the switches are working properly. Switch them back and forth a few times to see if you have any intermittent issues.

If the switches test good and you wire them back properly, the problem should be solved.

If not you most likely have a problem down stream with the wiring or fan unit.

 

[sameguy]

That would be good in the old days, but now you will need to do the testing with the power off or the OschA man will get you!!
I think the replacing of the switch is where you went wrong; I always twist my travelers a couple times at the back of the box to ID them for 20yrs. later.

 

[480sparky]

That would be good in the old days, but now you will need to do the testing with the power off or the OschA man will get you!!
I think the replacing of the switch is where you went wrong; I always twist my travelers a couple times at the back of the box to ID them for 20yrs. later.

So how do you test for power when the power is turned off? :roll:

 

[eprice]

So how do you test for power when the power is turned off? :roll:

A very good point. So, let me ask (before ducking for cover) how do we avoid applying the 110.26(A) working space requirements to three way light switches?

 

[tommyrice]

3 way problem

3 way problem

common and travelers probably on wrong terminals in one of the switches

 

[dhalleron]

No telling how many service calls I went on where the homeowner said the switch used to work and he swore he never touched it yet I found a new looking switch and a traveler and common crossed.

Not too long ago I thought I ran into the same problem but it turned out to be a bad switch.

I like 480sparky's step by step.

 

[stud696981]

That would be good in the old days, but now you will need to do the testing with the power off or the OschA man will get you!!
I think the replacing of the switch is where you went wrong; I always twist my travelers a couple times at the back of the box to ID them for 20yrs. later.

Notice I said while you have both switches disconnected to test them? I never said testing them while they were hooked up.

 

[sameguy]

Ohm meter, I was talking about turning the power on to id. the hot and travelers.
I do it hot too! Just putting out the PPE/Osha idea to see how far we could make things more expensive and harder.

 

[hardworker]

Conclusion

Conclusion

Both switches were not working properly. The house is in a humid climate and the a/c is not used very often. Both switches had corroided to the point, they were not making connection every time. They looked fine, but were not. I worked the toggle back and forth multiple times and they both started working correctly. This is why, they would work and then if you let them set for awhile, they would no longer work. Moving the switch cleans the contacts. Setting for a period and they would corroid again.

Any comments?

 

[ceb58]

Both switches were not working properly. The house is in a humid climate and the a/c is not used very often. Both switches had corroided to the point, they were not making connection every time. They looked fine, but were not. I worked the toggle back and forth multiple times and they both started working correctly. This is why, they would work and then if you let them set for awhile, they would no longer work. Moving the switch cleans the contacts. Setting for a period and they would corroid again.

Any comments?

Dehumidifier and two new 3 way switches