3 wire attachment plug-2 wire appliance

madchad

Member
Location
Columbia, MD USA
I have a customer that wants an L5-15P installed on an animal hair clipper/trimmer that has a 2 wire cord. In the grooming room of this animal hospital they have several cord reels attached to the ceiling, all with either L5-20?s or L5-15?s attached. My issue is that it would be a violation of 406.10(E) to install an L5-15P on the clippers. Is there some possible way to install a twistlock on the clippers and be legal? Thanks
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I don't see an issue with the clippers since they are double insulated. The listing , of course, is compromised but the NEC really does not apply to clippers.
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
I have a customer that wants an L5-15P installed on an animal hair clipper/trimmer that has a 2 wire cord. In the grooming room of this animal hospital they have several cord reels attached to the ceiling, all with either L5-20’s or L5-15’s attached. My issue is that it would be a violation of 406.10(E) to install an L5-15P on the clippers. Is there some possible way to install a twistlock on the clippers and be legal? Thanks
NEMA L1-15 fits the bill. Hubbell and others sell them. As I recall an L1-15 outlet will also accept a standard non-locking 125V 15A plug.
 
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Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
No, i called the manufacturer and they are not double insulated. I thought they would be too.
They should be marked either with the words "double insulated", or a box within a box symbol.
 
They should be marked either with the words "double insulated", or a box within a box symbol.
Or they could have no exposed metal parts likely to become energized. The blades could be run with a plastic drive and the rest of the outside of the clippers could be plastic and there would be no metal parts likely to become energized.

By definition, this may be the same as double-insulated, but in practice or by listing standards it may not be. Moot point with no exposed metal to worry about.

What kind of plug did the clippers come with? And why is it now gone?

FWIW, here is the double insulated symbol:


 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Why would they not be considered 'hand held motor operated tools'?
The manufacturing of tools does not fall under the NEC. If it did then every oven, and appliance would probably fail. The inspection stops at the outlet not the hand held tool. Heck the tools are generally not there when an inspection is done.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The inspection stops at the outlet
I disagree with many on that point. :)

240.5 Protection of Flexible Cords, Flexible Cables, and
Fixture Wires. Flexible cord and flexible cable, including
tinsel cord and extension cords, and fixture wires shall be
protected against overcurrent by either 240.5(A) or (B).
To me an extension cord is clearly beyond the outlet.

Aren't 'fixture wires' beyond the lighting outlet?

Just another gray area in the NEC.
 
The manufacturing of tools does not fall under the NEC. If it did then every oven, and appliance would probably fail. The inspection stops at the outlet not the hand held tool. Heck the tools are generally not there when an inspection is done.
Then.....why is it in there (the NEC)?

There is a whole list of stuff in [2008 NEC] 250.114. They even specify some types, hedge trimmers and lawn mowers. Are you saying 250.114 is just null and void and we should ignore it?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I disagree with many on that point. :)



To me an extension cord is clearly beyond the outlet.

Aren't 'fixture wires' beyond the lighting outlet?

Just another gray area in the NEC.
The light is an outlet and is wired to the circuit as any equipment would be. Even then the fixture if listed is not an NEC issue but the wiring to it would be.
 
I disagree with many on that point. :)



To me an extension cord is clearly beyond the outlet.

Aren't 'fixture wires' beyond the lighting outlet?

Just another gray area in the NEC.
It's not a grey area to me. There is nothing in the NEC that says their scope stops at the receptacle.

In fact, 90.2 says they cover equipment. Also conductors. I would say an extension cord is equipment used as a conductor.

Since installations are only 2 of the 4 areas of the scope, that means that one cannot say the NEC applies to installations only.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The light is an outlet
No, IMO the light is utilization equipment.

Utilization Equipment. Equipment that utilizes electric energy
for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating,
lighting, or similar purposes.
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.
If we look at Premise wiring it gets more interesting. It says it stops at the outlet but then goes on to say not inside equipment. Suggesting to me that the cord to the lamp is in fact covered by the NEC.

Premises Wiring (System). Interior and exterior wiring,
including power, lighting, control, and signal circuit wiring
together with all their associated hardware, fittings, and
wiring devices, both permanently and temporarily installed.
This includes (a) wiring from the service point or power
source to the outlets or (b) wiring from and including the
power source to the outlets where there is no service point.

Such wiring does not include wiring internal to appliances,
luminaires, motors, controllers, motor control centers,
and similar equipment.
 
No, IMO the light is utilization equipment.





If we look at Premise wiring it gets more interesting. It says it stops at the outlet but then goes on to say not inside equipment. Suggesting to me that the cord to the lamp is in fact covered by the NEC.
It does not say it stops at the outlet, it says it includes them. It does say 'together with....devices....permanent or temporary'.

Here is a question for you.

A lighting controller has receptacles built inside it to be plugged in from the outside. The NEC says all receptacles have to be listed. Does being inside a factory built enclosure make them exempt from that requirement? (Hint, a receptacle is not wiring, now, is it?)
 

madchad

Member
Location
Columbia, MD USA
Or they could have no exposed metal parts likely to become energized. The blades could be run with a plastic drive and the rest of the outside of the clippers could be plastic and there would be no metal parts likely to become energized.

By definition, this may be the same as double-insulated, but in practice or by listing standards it may not be. Moot point with no exposed metal to worry about.

What kind of plug did the clippers come with? And why is it now gone?

FWIW, here is the double insulated symbol:


The doctors want the capability to utilize the L5-15 on the cord reels that are suspended from the ceiling. By installing the matching L5-15p on the tool, this would work. The tool came with the standard 2 prong plug.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The doctors want the capability to utilize the L5-15 on the cord reels that are suspended from the ceiling. By installing the matching L5-15p on the tool, this would work. The tool came with the standard 2 prong plug.
I guess worst case you could make an adapter cord with locking plug on one end and with straight blade connector on the other,

I myself would have no issue with changing the plug on the existing cord - it still is same two system conductors going to supply the tool, and no equipment grounding conductor beyond the outlet either way.

So what if it is UL listed with the straight blade plug. If the cord is damaged, the only way to maintain UL listing is to replace entire cord with one that is identical otherwise we still have a modification and probably are no longer listed, right?
 
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