3 wire Outlets on 2 wire circuit

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reeseguy

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Slidell,La USA
Customer's house is wired with 12/2 plain, no ground. Existing outlets are 2 wire duplex receptacles. He wants to install grounded duplex receptacles in place of the 2 wire receptacles using the existing romex. Also he want to replace 2 - wire duplex receptacles by kitchen sink with GFI receptacles. What are his legal options in this case?
 
Read 406.3(D)(3) and let us know if you need more help.

(D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 406.3(D)(1), (D)(2), and (D)(3) as applicable.
(1) Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure or an equipment grounding conductor is installed in accordance with 250.130(C), grounding-type receptacles shall be used and shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 406.3(C) or 250.130(C).
(2) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.
(3) Non?Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(3)(a), (D)(3)(b), or (D)(3)(c).
(a) A non?grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non?grounding-type receptacle(s).
(b) A non?grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked ?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.
(c) A non?grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked ?GFCI Protected? and ?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.
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What happened to the stickers stating "No equipment ground" that used to come with GFCI's?

At least in the Cooper brand the are missing.
 
K8MHZ said:
How long do you suppose they would last, anyway? And just where were you supposed to put them? They are supposed to be on the receptacle, not the cover. Pretty much impossible to do and still read the label.
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First time I have ever heard that. I see where it comes from. Don't know or believe it is any code intention but rather someones interpretation. As you pointed out it is mostly impractical to do so with standard duplex receptacles.
 
kwired said:
First time I have ever heard that. I see where it comes from. Don't know or believe it is any code intention but rather someones interpretation. As you pointed out it is mostly impractical to do so with standard duplex receptacles.
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I cannot believe that is the intent however the only way to know is to write a proposal.
 
kwired said:
First time I have ever heard that. I see where it comes from. Don't know or believe it is any code intention but rather someones interpretation. As you pointed out it is mostly impractical to do so with standard duplex receptacles.
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406.3(D)(3)(b) is pretty clear, "These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground". That states that the receptacles must bear the marking (shall be marked) and makes no allowance for a cover to be marked instead.

Oddly, the code doesn't say that the markings have to be readable when the receptacle is in place. So, technically, the marking could be on the back of the receptacle and still comply with the Code.

Also, would a symbol not be a marking? Like the symbol of a ground with a red circle around it and slash through it.

But, it says what it says. And that is that the receptacle must be marked. Front, back, side, it doesn't seem to matter to the code.
 
K8MHZ said:
406.3(D)(3)(b) is pretty clear, "These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground". That states that the receptacles must bear the marking (shall be marked) and makes no allowance for a cover to be marked instead.

Oddly, the code doesn't say that the markings have to be readable when the receptacle is in place. So, technically, the marking could be on the back of the receptacle and still comply with the Code.

Also, would a symbol not be a marking? Like the symbol of a ground with a red circle around it and slash through it.

But, it says what it says. And that is that the receptacle must be marked. Front, back, side, it doesn't seem to matter to the code.
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I can't say I disagree with you.

Have you ever marked the back and tried to convince an inspector this is acceptable?
 
K8MHZ said:
406.3(D)(3)(b) is pretty clear, "These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground". That states that the receptacles must bear the marking (shall be marked) and makes no allowance for a cover to be marked instead.

Oddly, the code doesn't say that the markings have to be readable when the receptacle is in place. So, technically, the marking could be on the back of the receptacle and still comply with the Code.

Also, would a symbol not be a marking? Like the symbol of a ground with a red circle around it and slash through it.

But, it says what it says. And that is that the receptacle must be marked. Front, back, side, it doesn't seem to matter to the code.
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How do you go about marking them?
 
steve_p said:
How do you go about marking them?
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When I mark them I stick the useless sticker on the cover. The inspectors know it won't fit on the receptacle and they also know they won't last long. The inspectors also know it won't mean anything to the HO.

I've always wanted to learn how those people at art fairs write names on a grain of rice. Then I would print 'no equipment ground' on the receptacle so it fit perfectly between the prongs but you would need a microscope to read it.
 
A couple weeks ago, I was working in a house with switched receptacles in the living room and one bedroom. I used my label maker to print a nice label explaining the bottom half of the receptacle was controlled by the switch. I placed it on the cover.

When I came back to finish something up, I found the painter painted over my label, plate and receptacle without ever taking off the plate. I?m sure it?s much faster to paint if you just paint everything in sight and don?t worry about masking or anything.

Another rental house I own has 2 wire no ground cables installed everywhere except the kitchen. I was going to GFCI protect the circuits with a feed through GFCI outlet and install grounding type receptacles until I found all of the receptacles only had 1 cable feeding them and they were fed from boxes in the attic. I?d need a GFCI outlet everywhere. I guess I could have installed GFCI breakers, but I just put in new 2 wire receptacles instead.
 
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