30 amp breaker for general purpose circuit

[Electricalartist]

I had a service call today at a super market. The refrigerator circuit keeps tripping. There's a 20 amp general purpose circuit with two refrigerators plugged into 2 seperate receptacles on the same circuit. One refrigerator is 13 amps the other is 6. Turns out they had a heater also plugged in the same circuit.
My fix is to run a dedicated circuit. What I was told is to put a 30 amp breaker.
So after I wrote down all the material I needed for a dedicated circuit. I called the foreman and he told me to put in a 30 amp breaker since it's number 10 wire in the panel. It threw me for such a loop that I totally forgot to open up the receptacles to see if there's number 10 wire on the receptacles. I'm pretty sure without even opening them that there's a splice box in the ceiling and from that box the number 10 feed is spliced with number 12 MC jumping these outlets.
Anyway let's just say there is number 10 wire on these outlets is it okay to put a 30 amp breaker? I'm not that great with the code. Just off of common sense i don't think I could put a 30 amp breaker on a general receptacle circuit.

 

[augie47]

More than one possible violation but, to start, you are not allowed to install 15 or 20 amp receptacles on a 30 amp circuit. and, if there is any #12 on the circuit, it can not be protected by a 30 amp breaker. You are getting very poor advice.

 

[hillbilly1]

It’s done a lot, but it is wrong! You are correct in adding a circuit.

 

[Electricalartist]

More than one possible violation but, to start, you are not allowed to install 15 or 20 amp receptacles on a 30 amp circuit. and, if there is any #12 on the circuit, it can not be protected by a 30 amp breaker. You are getting very poor advice.

Oh I'm definitely 100% sure I'm getting poor advice. But I wanted to confirm that I can't put 15 or 20 receptacles on a 30 amp circuit. I think I'm just going to make believe I put in a 30 amp breaker so I don't have to argue with him

 

[hillbilly1]

The only way around it, would be putting a small two circuit load center, with smaller breakers to feed the receptacles. That opens a whole ‘nother can of worms, as where to legally locate the load center. Another consideration, is voltage drop. How far is the load from the panel? The existing #10 was probably ran to account for that.

 

[MattG0311]

If I couldn’t argue with my foreman I wouldn’t even come to work!!! Find some code references and show him why your right!!!

 

[Greentagger]

For starters see Table 210.21(B)(3) and 210.23(B).

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

It is bad advice. Stand your ground.
Maybe a comprise would be a single pole 30amp breaker feeding a two circuit panel with a single pole 15amp feeding a duplex receptacle and a single pole 20amp feeding a single 20amp receptacle?

 

[hillbilly1]

It is bad advice. Stand your ground.
Maybe a comprise would be a single pole 30amp breaker feeding a two circuit panel with a single pole 15amp feeding a duplex receptacle and a single pole 20amp feeding a single 20amp receptacle?

See post #5

 

[qcroanoke]

Hide the heater.

 

[Buck Parrish]

It's dangerous. Especially with that electric heater this time of year. It wouldn't take long for that outlet to start smoking.

 

[Buck Parrish]

These were on #12 in a clothing store in a downtown row of old store buildings.

 

[Fred B]

Sounds like some old school thinking was incorporated. (The fuse would keep blowing so put in a bigger one.) These may not have burned down the building yet because loads applied was less than required to fail the #12 wire, but was enough to trip the 20A breakers.

 

[petersonra]

It's unlikely that running 30 amps through a number 12 wire will cause a fire. However, it's clearly not to code and protecting a 20 or 15 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit breaker is also not to code, although again it probably won't cause a fire.

It might be better to get with these people and explain to them that they are just asking for trouble even if what they're doing is probably not going to cause a fire. But it could.

Most people are going to understandably think that you are just trying to get extra money out of them rather than there being a legitimate safety issue since it has not been a problem for All these years that it has been there.

 

[hillbilly1]

We had a local contractor that many years ago would fill a panel with 30 amp breakers on #12 wire. We didn’t have inspections, so he got away with it for a long time….that was until he wired a house here for someone from out of state, they called the construction board, and had his license revocated. I came behind him on one job he did and fixed some poorly mounted receptacles. He used a very shallow cut in box on a furred out block wall. Every time something was plugged in, it shorted out. What was weird, he actually had all 20 amp breakers on #12, but ran a #14 to the water heater with a double pole 30. I noticed it because all of the wires had a white sheath, that one was brown!

 

[qcroanoke]

It's unlikely that running 30 amps through a number 12 wire will cause a fire. However, it's clearly not to code and protecting a 20 or 15 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit breaker is also not to code, although again it probably won't cause a fire.

It might be better to get with these people and explain to them that they are just asking for trouble even if what they're doing is probably not going to cause a fire. But it could.

Most people are going to understandably think that you are just trying to get extra money out of them rather than there being a legitimate safety issue since it has not been a problem for All these years that it has been there.

His foreman is the one who told him to change the 20 amp breaker to a 30 amp.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

His foreman is the one who told him to change the 20 amp breaker to a 30 amp.

Sounds like his foreman needs a good talking to.

 

[LarryFine]

Sounds like his foreman needs a good talking to.

Take yer pick:

 

[petersonra]

His foreman is the one who told him to change the 20 amp breaker to a 30 amp.

I still think the OP's best bet is to explain to his foreman why he feels this is inappropriate and that the best solution is to go to the customer with a safe solution. However, telling the foreman he is an idiot is probably not where this discussion should start.

 

[Electricalartist]

I still think the OP's best bet is to explain to his foreman why he feels this is inappropriate and that the best solution is to go to the customer with a safe solution. However, telling the foreman he is an idiot is probably not where this discussion should start.

Lol oh how you were right about this. After getting poor advice multiple times I pretty much went off and told him how much of an idiot he was without holding back at all. Turns out all of a sudden there's not much overtime available....