300.5(d)(3)

[chris kennedy]

As per the heading I would say this doesn't apply to conductors in conduit. Am I correct?

(D) Protection from Damage. Direct-buried conductors and cables shall be protected from damage in accordance with 300.5(D)(1) through (D)(4).

(3) Service Conductors. Underground service conductors that are not encased in concrete and that are buried 450 mm (18 in.) or more below grade shall have their location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in the trench at least 300 mm (12 in.) above the underground installation.

 

[iwire]

IMO it applies to service conductors direct buried or buried in conduit. :smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

IMO it applies to service conductors direct buried or buried in conduit. :smile:

I agree, service conductors are service conductors whether they are in conduit, cable, wireways, etc...

 

[chris kennedy]

Could you both take a look at T300.5 column 1 and compare it to column 3. Looks to me like it applies to a column 1 install.

 

[iwire]

How do you feel 300.5(D)(3) has anything to do with the table?

 

[iwire]

Chris read it this way

300.5(D)(3) Service Conductors. Underground service conductors that are not encased in concrete and that are buried 450 mm (18 in.) or more below grade shall have their location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in the trench at least 300 mm (12 in.) above the underground installation.

 

[iwire]

Mike's image on this

Looks like pipe to me. :smile:

 

[chris kennedy]

OK thanks Bob. Here is a related pic from yesterday with related commentary below. The shop gives me grief about a $45 roll of tape. They tell me I don't need it.

View attachment 1936

It was a very hot day.

 

[iwire]

Chris you may be right, from the 2008 ROP

3-48 Log #2193 NEC-P03 Final Action: Reject
(300.5(D)(3))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: David Williams, Lansing, MI
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
(3) Service Conductors. Underground service conductors and raceways that
are not encased in concrete and that are buried 450 mm (18 in.) or more below
grade shall have their location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in
the trench at least 300 mm (12 in.) above the underground installation.
Substantiation: The wording of the code section did not include raceways
and I feel some could interpret this to only require this requirement when the
conductors are direct burial.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The introductory text in 300.5(D) requires direct buried
conductors and cables to be protected from physical damage in (1) through
(4). An installation may warrant more than one of these requirements be used.
For example, direct buried service conductors may require protection where
emerging from grade as provided in 300.5(D)(1) or where there is a potential
for damage as provided in 300.5(D)(4). Where service conductors are not direct
buried and are instead installed entirely in a raceway, this warning ribbon is not
required. The warning ribbon is only required where direct buried conductors
or cables are installed, even where a raceway or sleeve may be installed as
extra protection.Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:
CASPARRO, P.: See my explanation of negative vote on Proposal 3-38.

 

[chris kennedy]

Chris you may be right

6/28/08 2:24PM Chris was right. OK got it, thanks.

And Bob, Thanks for your time and research on that. I know on Saterdays you like to dress up like Superman and play with your Teddy Bears, your sacrifice is greatly appreciated.:smile:

 

[iwire]

6/28/08 2:24PM Chris was right. OK got it, thanks.

And Bob, Thanks for your time and research on that. I know on Saterdays you like to dress up like Superman and play with your Teddy Bears, your sacrifice is greatly appreciated.:smile:

They (the Teddys) get lonely without me. :grin:

Mike H. also put in a proposal that supports your side. :-?

But I will remember this as I fought another time that the heading has meaning (on another code section) and I was roundly shot down on that.

 

[chris kennedy]

Mike H. also put in a proposal that supports your side. :-?

Not my side my friend. Those are 480V laterials and a couple bucks worth of tape will go in the next ditch also. Schedule 40 is no match for a back hoe. Could you picture spotting an operator and being 8 to 10 feet away when that arc flashes?

 

[360Youth]

OK thanks Bob. Here is a related pic from yesterday with related commentary below. The shop gives me grief about a $45 roll of tape. They tell me I don't need it.

View attachment 1936

It was a very hot day.

Worker juststanding around with a shovel and they are worried about a roll of tape? :grin:

 

[chris kennedy]

Worker juststanding around with a shovel and they are worried about a roll of tape? :grin:

That young man kicks butt and can take a break whenever he chooses.

 

[360Youth]

That young man kicks butt and can take a break whenever he chooses.

I was just messing with you. Don't get so defensive. :wink: It does my heart good to know that there is good workers out there.

 

[chris kennedy]

I was just messing with you. Don't get so defensive. :wink: It does my heart good to know that there is good workers out there.

I'm sorry. That was a knee jerk reaction. You sounded like the owner of our company.:grin:

 

[dnem]

But I will remember this as I fought another time that the heading has meaning (on another code section) and I was roundly shot down on that.

I'm trying to imagine what situation you might be talking about because the heading always has meaning. . No exceptions.

The quote isn't (2) + (3), it's (D) + (3)
(3) is a sub under (D) so of course the heading wording in (D) has meaning for (3)

 

[dnem]

Not my side my friend. Those are 480V laterials and a couple bucks worth of tape will go in the next ditch also. Schedule 40 is no match for a back hoe. Could you picture spotting an operator and being 8 to 10 feet away when that arc flashes?

I agree 100% but isn't that a reason that an inspector or anyone else should say to the installor ? . Say it in conversation but don't put it on an official inspection writeup unless it's directly code or a reasonably honest interpretation of code. . How can you enforce a code that isn't there ?

300.5(D) is direct burial. . (D)(1) is therefore direct burial. . (D)(2) is therefore direct burial. . (D)(3) is therefore direct burial. . (D)(4) is therefore direct burial.

(D) Protection from Damage. Direct-buried conductors and cables shall be protected from damage in accordance with 300.5(D)(1) through (D)(4).

(3) Service Conductors. Underground service conductors that are not encased in concrete and that are buried 450 mm (18 in.) or more below grade shall have their location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in the trench at least 300 mm (12 in.) above the underground installation.

 

[frizbeedog]

I'm sorry. That was a knee jerk reaction.

The knee must be OK then.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm sorry. That was a knee jerk reaction.

The knee must be OK then.

Yeah, the knee is okay; it's the jerk that's the problem. :grin: