300W Incandescent

[ptonsparky]

Small church needs some work done on a couple fixtures and are complaining the lighting doesn't seem as good as it used to be.

The 300 watt lamps they bought are rated @ 130v. Voltage at panel is 119 with them On vs 120 Off.
Can anyone tell me the lumen difference between the design and applied voltage?

 

[LarryFine]

No, but you can calculate the wattage difference.

They really should get rid of the incandescents.

 

[ptonsparky]

No, but you can calculate the wattage difference.

They really should get rid of the incandescents.They just special ordered the 130 volt lamps. I suggested have 10 parishioners on any given Sunday, the youngest being 60.

I suggested they accidentally ‘drop‘ a case of the lamps.

 

[winnie]

The equations in the wikipedia article are drawn from the Welch Allyn incandescent lamp paper and are a good approximation:

Lamp rerating - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

going from 130V to 119V you would expect lumen output to go down to (119/130)^3.5 = 0.73 about 73% of the rated value.

-Jon

 

[zbang]

I've probably got a two or or three cases of 300w 120v lamps, and at least some of them are half-silvered. Let me know if you need any . (Prev bldg manager bought them way back when and I can't remember every having to replace one since they burn for maybe 8 hours a week.)

 

[ptonsparky]

These are half silvered as well.
Thanks anyway, but I won't relay the message.

 

[James L]

Not sure of your fixture style, but my previous church had 300-watt incandescents in some warehouse type lights in a gymnasium.

I first switched to 68-watt cfl back in 2010 or 2011

Then about 2017 I found these 30-watt flood bulbs...

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/light-bulbs/led-light-bulbs/feit-electric-reg-250w-equivalent-br40-warm-white-dimmable-high-lumen-led-light-bulb/br40-dm-2500-3k-led/p-1444430408770-c-7482.htm?tid=-1137707824439651872&ipos=9

They say 250-watt equivalent, but they seemed to be a decent replacement for the cfl's, which were a decent replacement for the 300w incans

 

[Flicker Index]

What do you mean not as good as it "used to be"? If these lamps were just bought, then silvered bowl that bounces light up into whatever it is above won't have as much light level in the occupied space below compared to a non-mirrored lamp.

 

[ptonsparky]

Not as good as it "used to be" was an observation of an elderly congregation that is not getting any younger. Entirely subjective.

We replaced the incandescents with LED that have the fold down wings. Not the prettiest things but 40% of the congregation said they would rather see. The other 6 weren't there.

 

[Besoeker3]

No, but you can calculate the wattage difference.

They really should get rid of the incandescents.

Totally agree.

 

[ptonsparky]

They did. 600 watts vs 3000 should be a bit easier on the K&T wiring.

 

[Fred B]

Not as good as it "used to be" was an observation of an elderly congregation that is not getting any younger. Entirely subjective.

We replaced the incandescents with LED that have the fold down wings. Not the prettiest things but 40% of the congregation said they would rather see. The other 6 weren't there.

One issue that frequently comes up when comparing old lighting to new lighting is the K values. The old bulbs had limited variations the new ones particularly LED seem to have a large variety that doesn't always accurately relate to the old bulb rating. Same lumen at a higher K value will look brighter. Some bulbs are very bad in their interpretation of the lumen/K values in trying to compare bulbs. Had 2 bulbs that were different mfg's same lumen same K value but customer thought one was brighter than the other. One was just slightly more yellow than the other. I couldn't see it until side by side.

 

[Flicker Index]

One issue that frequently comes up when comparing old lighting to new lighting is the K values. The old bulbs had limited variations the new ones particularly LED seem to have a large variety that doesn't always accurately relate to the old bulb rating. Same lumen at a higher K value will look brighter. Some bulbs are very bad in their interpretation of the lumen/K values in trying to compare bulbs. Had 2 bulbs that were different mfg's same lumen same K value but customer thought one was brighter than the other. One was just slightly more yellow than the other. I couldn't see it until side by side.

At lower illumination level, this is true. The threshold for relevance of scotopic/mesopic lumens is around 3FC according to Google.

 

[James L]

At lower illumination level, this is true. The threshold for relevance of scotopic/mesopic lumens is around 3FC according to Google.

You're right. Once you get to a certain amount of lumens, it doesn't really matter what color of the light is.

 

[garbo]

Small church needs some work done on a couple fixtures and are complaining the lighting doesn't seem as good as it used to be.

The 300 watt lamps they bought are rated @ 130v. Voltage at panel is 119 with them On vs 120 Off.
Can anyone tell me the lumen difference between the design and applied voltage?

If my old memory serves me right on incandescent lamps for every 1% decrease in voltage there is a 3% decrease in lumen output. Had a customer that owned 2 old apartment buildings with 36 units each. He used traffic lamps that were rated for think 155 volts. The 60 watt lamps looked more like a 25 watt lamp but he was happy due to they lasted think over a year in all the hallway luminares. Church should convert to LED lamps.Only matter of time that they stop making the 300 watt lamps. I have a 130 volt rough service lamp in my hallway ceiling luminare that is over 25 years old. We use it several times a night. Its the last incadescent lamp in my home. Hope this helps.

 

[zbang]

Once you get to a certain amount of lumens, it doesn't really matter what color of the light is.

Well, assuming the spectrum is at least somewhat even; sources like mercury or low-pressure sodium have only a few spectral lines and always look awful.

 

[Flicker Index]

Well, assuming the spectrum is at least somewhat even; sources like mercury or low-pressure sodium have only a few spectral lines and always look awful.

mercury vapor and LPS are rarely in use.,

 

[zbang]

mercury vapor and LPS are rarely in use.,

The same would be generally true for 300w (or 130v) incandescent, but that doesn't change the point about color vs lumens.

 

[GoldDigger]

The same would be generally true for 300w (or 130v) incandescent, but that doesn't change the point about color vs lumens.

There are much better color-rendering LEDs available now than in earlier generations. The first white LEDs used several mono-frequency diodes to approximate white, while modern ones often uses far blue emitters in conjunction with phosphor mixes to get a smoother spectrum.
Just as early fluorescents concentrated on using the least expensive and most efficient phosphors while youy can pay a premium price to get a better color spectrum these days.