310.15(B)(7)

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texie

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The post about SE cable in insulation reminded me of another question regarding the rework of 310.15(B)(7) in the 2014 NEC.
Since we are now using new language and a formula to determine ampacity for this application, it would seem that we could now use a parallel circuit and apply 310.15(B)(7). Under the 2011 language and table it was clear that you could not do this but now it seems that you could.
Am I reading this correctly?
 
Who says you cannot parallel conductors used in that table?

The CMP has a different view. From the 2011 ROP:

6-86 Log #1732 NEC-P06
Final Action: Reject
(310.15(B)(6))
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter:
Charles E. Beck, Affiliated Engineers NW, Inc.
Recommendation:
Insert after the second sentence, which ends with ?...
associated with the dwelling unit.? ?Use of paralleled conductors as a substitute
for the conductor sizes shown in this table, or to supply larger service or feeder
loads than those shown in this table, shall not be permitted. The feeder
conductors to a dwelling unit shall not be required...?.
Substantiation:
This change would clearly declare that Table 310.15(B)(6)
cannot be adapted to suit the user?s design preferences.
310.4 tells us that paralleling conductors is allowable, under certain
conditions. But it does not tell us what changes take place, when we do so. It is
commonly presumed that two parallel conductors (In separate raceways) will
have twice the ampacity of either conductor alone. But, Table 310.15(B)(6) is
not about ampacity. The values for amperes shown in the left-hand column are
not ampacity values, but rather are load values.
Table 310.15(B)(6) allows for the use of conductors in situations that exceed
their ampacity values as given in Table 310.16. For example, a 2/0 copper
conductor with 75C insulation has an ampacity of 175 amps, yet it can be used
for a 200 amp service. That represents a 25 amp difference between the
conductor?s ampacity and the load it will carry. That difference becomes 50
amps, when you use two in parallel. Absent any proof that the additional
burden will not harm the conductor, and particularly noting that the user has no
knowledge of the design basis that lies behind this Table, the user should not be
allowed to presume that a pair of 2/0 conductors will be sufficient for a service
of 400 amps.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:
The submitter is incorrect in his assumption that the
conductors in 310.15 (B)(6) are not permitted to be paralleled in accordance
with 310.4. The conductor ampacities listed in 310.15(B)(6) are based on the
diversity of the total load of an individual dwelling. This means that the
conductors of a 120/240-volt, single-phase dwelling service or feeder with a
calculated load of 200 amps will never carry 200 amps. Due to this fact, the
language and table in 310.15(B)(6) will permit the use of a 2/0 conductor,
which has an ampacity of 175 amps in the 75 degree C column. The same
theory applies to the conductors of a service or feeder with a calculated load of
400 amps. Section 310.15(B)(6) will permit the use of a 400 kcmil conductor
that would only have an ampacity of 335 amps in the 75 degree C column to be
used for a 400 amp service or feeder. When two 2/0 conductors are installed in
parallel for the same 400 amp installation the combined ampacity is 350 amps,
which is 15 amps more than that of a 400 kcmil conductor.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:
Affirmative: 11
 
Wow. This is a first for me that the CMP thought that the 2011 allowed this. While I see nothing wrong with doing it, I have never seen it allowed. In any event, with the 2104 edition, I think there is no doubt that parallel is OK.
 
Wow. This is a first for me that the CMP thought that the 2011 allowed this. While I see nothing wrong with doing it, I have never seen it allowed. In any event, with the 2104 edition, I think there is no doubt that parallel is OK.
Panel 6 made the same statement in the ROP for the 1995 code.
 
To be clear (310.15(B)(7))

....."For application of this section,
the main power feeder shall be the feeder between the
main disconnect and the panelboard"

'a' main power feeder CAN be the sum of paralleled conductors.

Correct?
 
To be clear (310.15(B)(7))

....."For application of this section,
the main power feeder shall be the feeder between the
main disconnect and the panelboard"

'a' main power feeder CAN be the sum of paralleled conductors.

Correct?

Yes.

46. Is it permissible to utilize Table 310.15(B)(7) and install two parallel runs of 4/0 aluminum SER cable
for a 400 ampere main power feeder for a single family dwelling?

Reference:
NEC
310.15(B)(7) ? 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire,Single-
Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders

Answer:
YES For a Main Power Feeder.
No if (2) individual feeders to separate 200 AMP sub- panels.

http://iaei-western.org/Files/CodePanel/2013_codepanelanswers.pdf
 
Last edited:
The post about SE cable in insulation reminded me of another question regarding the rework of 310.15(B)(7) in the 2014 NEC.
Since we are now using new language and a formula to determine ampacity for this application, it would seem that we could now use a parallel circuit and apply 310.15(B)(7). Under the 2011 language and table it was clear that you could not do this but now it seems that you could.
Am I reading this correctly?

OK, nothing in 310.15(B)(7) excludes a parallel run provided the lugs permit it and it complies with the true definition of a "parallel" set of conductors. If you are talking about the practice of installing a 400A meter and coming out of the back of the panel with a separate SE Cable to one panel and a separate SE Cable to another panel then that is not considered Paralleling....

So while the responses do agree that the table and now mathematical equation (that results in the same values as the old table, just with an new understanding that adjustments and corrections do apply to the final ampacity value)....it would be very hard for a set as I described above to meet the exact verbiage of 310.15(B)(7)(1).

(1) Paralleled Installations. Conductors shall be permitted to be run in parallel in accordance with the provisions of 310.10(H)



310.10(H)(1) General. Aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or copper conductors, for each phase, polarity, neutral, or grounded circuit shall be permitted to be connected in parallel (electrically joined at both ends) only in sizes 1/0 AWG and larger where installed in accordance with 310.10(H)(2) through (H)(6).





 
Now I am confused:

Number of outside feeders ?supplying dwelling unit?

I am in the process of creating a bid for a residential job. The engineering firm requires a 400-ampere (A) meter socket with two 200A service disconnects, installed on a pedestal 80 feet from the dwelling unit, and two underground feeders to the dwelling unit basement with two grouped 200A disconnects. Is this not a violation of NEC 225.30, which limits the number of feeders to one? There is a significant cost issue for a straight 400A meter socket versus a 400A meter socket equipped with the two 200A breakers.?

You are correct. Section 225.30 limits the number of feeders to a building or structure from the load side of a service disconnecting means to one feeder. There are five first-level subdivisions that allow more than one feeder, but in this case, none will apply. To be in compliance with the NEC, you will need to bring a single 400A feeder to the dwelling unit. The design calls for the feeder to terminate in the basement, and the disconnect must be located at a readily accessible location nearest to the point of entrance. At that point, there are multiple ways to meet the original design?s intent.?
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/outside-feeders-egcs-and-more
 
So you can bring a 400 amp feeder to the building, put in a trough and splice 2 pair of 4/0 alum or whatever to 2- 200 amp panels... Silly huh
 
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