320.23a

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jcole

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How many of the inspectors you guys deal with interpert "permanent stairs" in 320.23A as pull down stairs for attics. I can see it both ways. But I feel if an inspector interperates it one way and then starts interperating it another way I feel he should at least let the electrician that he deals with on a weekly basis know of his change in interperation. I dont know of any other inspector that says pulls downs are permanent and everything in the attic must be drilled out.

The builder said he would call him and tell him he was going to put a large scuttle hole in and after the final inspection put the pull down in. Im just leary of doing things like that. What do you guys think?
 
jcole said:
You mean alot of 2x4's. He is just not talking about with in 6ft or the homeruns, he is talking about all the wires looped from rec. to rec., switch loops, smokes, etc.
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gotcha... I always drill so never really paid much attention to this code section, but i'm having difficulty understanding what they mean by "or within 7' of floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding"...
 
I think it means from the top of the ceiling joist to rafter exceeds 7' then it has to be drilled out. So I guess if you stay pretty close to the eaves it would be ok.?

I wonder if anybody knows when this section was added to the code?
 
I always drill so never really paid much attention to this code section,
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I hope that you don't drill holes in engineered attic trusses.:eek:

This section is not only dealling with permanent stairs but also permanent ladders.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
I hope that you don't drill holes in engineered attic trusses.:eek:

This section is not only dealling with permanent stairs but also permanent ladders.

Chris
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Why, you can't drill trusses? :grin: , I know when to apply the code but I don't understand what the 7' is referring to?
 
stickboy1375 said:
Why, you can't drill trusses? :grin: , I know when to apply the code but I don't understand what the 7' is referring to?
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This section has two parts, first when run on the top of floor joists.

Second within 7 ft of floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding.

So if I have floor joists that form a floor and a space next to the floor joist within 7 feet of the floor joists this section applys.

Hope this makes sense.

Chris
 
stickboy1375 said:
Why, you can't drill trusses? :grin: , I know when to apply the code but I don't understand what the 7' is referring to?
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The 7' is referring to a 7' radius around the opening. This is to protect the wires from people using the attic space for storage. It is done here in Florida because we do not have basements. Wires are protected by wood "rat runs" nail next to the wires.
 
If the attic has no floor, they are not floor joists. They're either the bottom chord of the truss, or the top side of the ceiling joists.
 
Don't know

Don't know

This is the exact reason that the GC failed an electrical inspection, the next two condo's the the stair well clearly marked for installation, and while not installed, we passed, don't know if that helps.
 
Cavie said:
The 7' is referring to a 7' radius around the opening. This is to protect the wires from people using the attic space for storage. It is done here in Florida because we do not have basements. Wires are protected by wood "rat runs" nail next to the wires.
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You might want to actually read 320.23 :grin:
 
raider1 said:
This section has two parts, first when run on the top of floor joists.

Second within 7 ft of floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding.

So if I have floor joists that form a floor and a space next to the floor joist within 7 feet of the floor joists this section applys.

Hope this makes sense.

Chris
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So basically they feel people won't walk 7' on open joists to store things correct?
 
mdshunk said:
If the attic has no floor, they are not floor joists. They're either the bottom chord of the truss, or the top side of the ceiling joists.
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Thanks Marc, that really made the light bulb click on, but in the same breath made me feel kinda dumb...:grin:
 
Stick I must be dumb because I still cant get it. Are you saying that it doesnt apply because attics do not have a floor or floor joists? I see your guys points but was that the intent of the code panel? If it said ceiling joist than it would apply? What would make it a floor, putting down plywood and nailing it? That makes since. Am I thinking correctly?

I also interpert that if I staple the romex to studding or rafters, in an attic or roof space that is accessible with permanent stairs, it must be stapled at least 7' or must be protected by approved means. Correct?

I think I might be thinking to much. You think?
 
jcole said:
I see your guys points but was that the intent of the code panel?
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Who cares what their intent was? If that was their intent, they failed to put that into the code text. For now, it says floor joists.
 
raider1 said:
I hope that you don't drill holes in engineered attic trusses.:eek:
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Forgive my ignorance, but I've always understood that as long as you drill out of the center of the stud/joist/rafter/truss/whatever -- and leave at least 1/3 of the width on either side, that the integrity of the wood would be maintained.

What makes an "engineered attic truss" different?
 
tallguy said:
Forgive my ignorance, but I've always understood that as long as you drill out of the center of the stud/joist/rafter/truss/whatever -- and leave at least 1/3 of the width on either side, that the integrity of the wood would be maintained.

What makes an "engineered attic truss" different?
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do not! I repeat, do not drill an enginered roof truss.
 
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